nother Look at Noal's Prophecy
by Rand-althor: 2003-07-12 | Not yet rated
"Fortune Rides Like the sun on high"
I believe that this means that there was a definate beggining to Mat's luck, and will be a definate end, like sun rise and set, and it will slowly build up until his luck is amazing no matter what, like the sun rises to its peak, then it will get worse, like the time while it is setting.
"With the Fox that makes the Ravens fly."
I agree with previous comments about the Raven's being Seanchan, but I don't see much of 'flying.' There is a search, of which Suroth likely knows nothing about, or she would put a stop to it, afterall, she seems to be setting up a false DOTNM and Tuon appearing would cause all kinds of trouble with those plans, so I think that the flying will be something yet to come, possably when Rand reveals that Suroth is a traitor to the Seanchan, and Mat reappears with Tuon to prove her wrong
"Luck his soul"
Obviously, a referece that his luck is more than just random, it is something that is part of him.
"Lightning his eye."
The eye is called the window to the soul, so I think this is related to his luck, possibly 'lightning' is just a metaphor for the Aes Sedai, who seem to have done something to make his luck start really manifesting itself (like he was always lucky, but the AS did something to increase it accedently)
"He snaches the moons from out of the sky."
This could be in reference to Tuon, but I think it is again more referenced to the false dotnm because it says Moons, which is plural, so maybe to reveal the scam with Suroth he will have to kidnap the false dotnm as well.
Well thats my possible interpertation, although I know it is unlikely, most of it probably means exactly what it sounds like, and I am reading to much into it.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-07-19
The luck is his soul part is self-explanatory, but then it is following by the Lightning part. This seems to be connected to the "lose half the light of the world", but what is the lightning, how does he have it and how will he lose it. The lightning doesn't sound metaphorically connected to life, and the lightning is something other than his actual eye. I think that is the most intriguing part of the prophecy, and it is another reason why I don't believe he will actually lose an eye, but I guess he could lose it in the process of doing whatever it is he will do.
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Vaughn882: 2003-07-19
I don't know about the Aes sedai=lightning eye part. I just don't see the connection. Mat isn't particularly related to the Aes sedai more than Rand or Perrin, and I don't think they increased his luck, nor that it will rise and set like the sun. I think it just means that he's really lucky. As for his luck ever ending, it might when he stops being ta'veren, but i see mat's luck as the moast special part about him- perrin can talk to wolves, rand can channel, and mat is unnaturally lucky.
as for moons=two people, i think it could just mean one. Tuon is daughter of the nine moonS, the moons are plural in her name, so the profecy probably just means her. As for "the fox that makes the ravens fly" i think this just menas that mat will either seriously hurt the seanchan, stop them, or change them alot.
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Callandor: 2003-07-19
Lightning sounds a lot like the shocklances of the AoL (RJ has said they are discharge weapons), and you have to start somewhere and the obvious place is cannons.
Moons... Tuon. No one else. Just Tuon. He kidnapped her so he "snached" her.
Making the Raven's fly, I think, means making them scatter (like any birds do when you shoot a shotgun off by a bunch of them). And it makes me think of Iterulde's plan and Mat being involved in that (just sticks to me, no proof).
Fortune riding high is probably a reference to his ta'verenness to me. It peeks at the LB, and then slowly goes away afterwards.
4
Shadow Bane: 2003-07-20
The lightning his eye part, i always took that to mean Mat was a rouge
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Mizguidded Khild: 2003-07-21
Lightning his eye, could deal with the idea of Mat giving up "half the light of the world" and that meaning his eye.
Mat has had a notoriously bad time through out the entire series with lightning, and in the future...most likely the last battle Mat could lose his eye to lightning. This is not exactly what I believe, but it is a possiblity.
6
Pendragon: 2003-07-21
As with all my other theory posts, ya'll put too much thought into this one. So, here we go:
"Fortune rides like the sun on high"
This is just talking about Mat's luck. There is no mention on it deminishing in any way. Yes, the sun has to set some time, but the main point on the sentence is not the sun, it's Mat's fortune/luck, and it's doing overtime work right now.
"With the Fox that makes the Ravens fly"
Obviously, the Fox is Mat, the Ravens are the Seanchen. And they are flying right now; the are looking for the DotNM.
"Luck his soul"
Duh
"Lightning his eye"
As with everybody else, this one puzzles me. But, I tend to agree with Shadow Bane on this one; it just means that he is a rouge or quick as lightning, that sort of thing. But it all ties together with the last sentence:
"He snatches the moons from out of the sky."
Now, if I remember correctly, Noal says this prophecy right after an argument with Tuon and Mat (don't have the book with me, someone help me out). The last line is about Mat stealing Tuon's heart. The entire prophecy is about how Tuon falls for Mat. Simple as that.
7
Ashaman Ragsdale: 2003-07-22
"With the Fox that makes the Ravens fly."
Could this some how have to do with Mat's ring?
(WH ch17)"It had been carved as a try-piece, to show the carver's skills, a running fox and to ravens in flight, all surroundedby crescent moona,..."
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Ashaman Ragsdale: 2003-07-25
I agree that Mats luck will run out, like the sun rises, and sets. We all know that sun rises every day, and sets every day, again, and again! So is it possible, that Mats luck will run out, and just like the cycle of the sun, will his luck rise again? Maybe by the time when the last battle rolls around, maybe when it's needed most? Just a thought!
9
Schmoo: 2003-07-27
Just a small point:
"Fortune rides like the sun on high..."
On high, I believe, refers to noon (I think Egwene & Elayne used that term when they were novices or accepted). Thus this line simply refers to Mat being always lucky.
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Pendragon: 2003-07-28
I think it has more to do with the time at hand. I don't believe in the whole 'sun rises, luck good, sun sets, luck BADDD' stuff, but at the time when he was, or will I guess, when Tuon's heart, his luck will be skyrocketing. The prophecy speaks nothing, NOTHING, of it going down, or coming back, or anything. It only refers to the time when he wins Tuon's heart, and at that time, his luck is like a sun on high: very, very high. So sayeth the Pendragon.
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jackmisfit: 2003-10-13
Fortune rides like the sun on high...to me that means that his luck is running in overdrive
With the fox that makes the Ravens fly... obviously the Fox is Mat, and with the "He snatches the moons from out of the sky", meaning that he will marry the DotNM, and by marrying her, he would become a leader of the Seanchan in some way, which agrees to other prophecies out there, (giving up half of the light of the world and what not), if he becomes a leader of Seanchan, wouldn't he be able to order the Ravens about? (weren't the secret Seanchan police Ravens?)To make them fly could mean that he is able to order them about, I don't think he's going to destroy the Seanchan or betray Rand, I think he's in line to become the leader of the Seanchan, after all, Rand gets to lead the world around and Perrin gets to be a King, what does Mat get?
The parallel of Mat/Odin seems to fall in line with him being in control of the Seanchan spy network, didn't Odin have two Ravens that perched on his shoulders and told him things?
I'm as lost as everyone else as far as the Lightning his eye line, it seems that most of the obscure prophesies point to the fact that he's going to lose an eye, is there an angreal or ter'angreal out there that works like an eye? Maybe he's gonna be hooked up with some kind of magic eye.
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jackmisfit: 2003-10-13
Fortune rides like the sun on high...to me that means that his luck is running in overdrive
With the fox that makes the Ravens fly... obviously the Fox is Mat, and with the "He snatches the moons from out of the sky", meaning that he will marry the DotNM, and by marrying her, he would become a leader of the Seanchan in some way, which agrees to other prophecies out there, (giving up half of the light of the world and what not), if he becomes a leader of Seanchan, wouldn't he be able to order the Ravens about? (weren't the secret Seanchan police Ravens?)To make them fly could mean that he is able to order them about, I don't think he's going to destroy the Seanchan or betray Rand, I think he's in line to become the leader of the Seanchan, after all, Rand gets to lead the world around and Perrin gets to be a King, what does Mat get?
The parallel of Mat/Odin seems to fall in line with him being in control of the Seanchan spy network, didn't Odin have two Ravens that perched on his shoulders and told him things?
I'm as lost as everyone else as far as the Lightning his eye line, it seems that most of the obscure prophesies point to the fact that he's going to lose an eye, is there an angreal or ter'angreal out there that works like an eye? Maybe he's gonna be hooked up with some kind of magic eye.
13
Arien Sedai: 2003-12-09
"Didn't Odin have two Ravens that perched on his shoulders and told him things?"
Yes - named Huin and Munin (Thought and Memory - sound familiar?)
Also, to bring in another point from Norse mythology, I think I remember reading something about Odin's missing eye being connected to lightning somehow (I'm afraid I don't remember anything more than that, so please correct me if I'm wrong).
14
Daekyras: 2004-03-09
* As with all my other theory posts, ya'll put too much thought into this one. So, here we go:
"Fortune rides like the sun on high"
This is just talking about Mat's luck. There is no mention on it deminishing in any way. Yes, the sun has to set some time, but the main point on the sentence is not the sun, it's Mat's fortune/luck, and it's doing overtime work right now.
"With the Fox that makes the Ravens fly"
Obviously, the Fox is Mat, the Ravens are the Seanchen. And they are flying right now; the are looking for the DotNM.
"Luck his soul"
Duh
"Lightning his eye"
As with everybody else, this one puzzles me. But, I tend to agree with Shadow Bane on this one; it just means that he is a rouge or quick as lightning, that sort of thing. But it all ties together with the last sentence:
"He snatches the moons from out of the sky."
Now, if I remember correctly, Noal says this prophecy right after an argument with Tuon and Mat (don't have the book with me, someone help me out). The last line is about Mat stealing Tuon's heart. The entire prophecy is about how Tuon falls for Mat. Simple as that.*
I agree with you pedragon on nearly every point except:
"With the Fox that makes the Ravens fly"
I don't think this is in reference to him "abducting" tuon at all. I belive Mat will marry Tuon and this will Set the fox amongst the ravens!
For those who think that lightning will take mats eye, how exactly would that happen and him survive? Electricity is fairly ambiguous about what it effects.
And to the people who think mats luck will run out, he is going to get married, the ultimate end to any mans luck!(note to ladies- thats a joke)
15
Freddy79: 2004-03-10
Odin sacrifices his eye to gain wisdom, that's all I can remember. But it seems that Mat has allready gained wisdom in form of all his memories. Just a thought...
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charliec: 2004-03-10
Think I'd put myself in the 'Mat drives off the Seanchan' camp... a cat among the pigeons scares them away, so would the fox among the ravens. Soon enough he'll be back at the head of an army which Rand sets to battling the Seanchan... Tuon will realise that he's actually quite important, not just a pretty boy, and he'll finish off snatching the moons.
As for his luck... in his memories he's more than once remembered times when his luck has run out, usually ending in death. Sun sets, bye bye Matty. One day. Far off, I hope.
17
TheNetweaver: 2004-03-10
"Lightning his eye"
It could mean a number of things. Consider this very simple interpretation: Mat has extremely good reflexes...lightning fast, you might say. I think Thom says that Mat has some of the fastest hands he's ever seen, but this quote could be buried in any of the books. Just another possibility, I have no idea what the line actually means. It's a RAFO for now.
18
Turandil: 2004-04-18
A also agree with Shadow Bane, i doubt there is anything special with "lightning his eye", i just think its because he is the charming rouge type of character.
About Suroth setting up a false DOTNM, why cant it be a real DOTNM?
There is not really anything that says that there are onyly one DOTNM, Tuon is just one of the emperess daughters, if her personal favorite and the one most likely to suceed her.
Hihi, what a twist if Mat dumps Tuon and marries her sister. :) :) :)
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Zader: 2004-06-24
The problem with Prophesy is, does it follow a linear path. ie does the first line happen 1st. then the second line and so on. Or is prophesy the piece in its entirity.
ie My explanation.
Mat kidnaps the Dotnm."He snaches the moons from out of the sky."
Karede gathers deathwatch gaurd to chase after Tuon.Suroth Orders Seekers to find Tuon. "With the Fox that makes the Ravens fly."
Sul'Dam have lightning bolts on their dresses. The 3 Sul'Dam tell Mat they will keep an eye on the 3 Aes Sedai. "Lightning his eye."
The last 2 Lines maybe stretching it a little.
Mat always hears the dice in his head when he knows something important is about to happen, and usually involves his luck. "Luck his soul"
This last line really is a stretch.
When the sun is on high time seems to pass slowly. By using the travelling show they are running away slowly. "Fortune Rides Like the sun on high"
Again all this presupposes Prophesy is not linear. If it is linear then where's the nearest rubbish bin.
20
Cyberkil: 2004-06-30
Hello everyone. This is my first contribution to these theories and I hope it is well received.
From what I can understand (and everyone else knows), this entire prophecy is about Mat. I don't think it actually points to anything too far in the future or anything that we haven't already figured out before though.
"Fortune Rides Like the sun on high
With the Fox that makes the Ravens fly.
Luck his soul
Lightning his eye.
He snatches the moons from out of the sky."
I don't have the original quote with me, but if the above (taken from the Rand's original post) is anything to go on, the punctuation tells you what is what.
The first two lines are one sentence and simply describe who Mat is. They refer to his luck, the Fox and the Raven. In this case the Raven "might" refer to the Seanchan and Tuon or the signet ring, but it also might refer to the ravens on the spear-sword that he wields. Might his fighting with that weapon, with all of the spinning involved, be considered making "the Ravens fly"?
The next two lines are one sentence and refer again to his luck and to "Lightning his eye." Since luck is a huge part of what Mat is, referring to it again isn't unwarranted. The Lighting his eye thing has a few thoughts bouncing in my head though:
Many have read about the possibility of Mat losing his eye. I do think that is going to happen, but I don't think this is referring to that. In a recent reread of the books, I saw a prophecy dream from Egwene. I'll paraphrase below since I don't have the book here:
There is an Illuminator display going on and Mat is watching and smiling. Explosions are going on in the sky overhead and Mat reaches up his hand and grasps one. Light and explosions can be seen in his closed fist. People will die over this.
Again, it's paraphrased, but I believe there might be a connection. By Egwene's prophesy, I can see Mat finally digging the secrets of the Illuminators out and discovering gunpowder. He has already used it as an explosive once to get into the Stone of Tear and, with his military memories, will figure out how effective it would be in war. I see a possible connection with the Lightning his eye line referring to the explosives he will wield.
For the last line, I agree with everyone that it obviously refers to Toun, the Daughter of the Nine Moons.
I apologize if the part about Egwene's Prophesy is repeated anywhere else, it's just something that popped into my head while reading and I didn't get a chance to search for any other references.
21
mako0424: 2004-07-02
I think the lightning his eye, means he uses his intelligence to discover the weapon use of fireworks, i.e a cannon.
and i think mat will lose one eye in a firework accident, giving rise the the line "you could put your eye out" and he would be giving up half his sight, or half the light of the world to both destroy the shadow/seanchan armies, and thus save the world.
