1
Tamyrlin: 2003-10-02
This is a different take on that prophecy; you are suggesting that the "new" converts to Aiel tradition are the remnant that will remain of the remnant that broke off from the Jenn Aiel? As in, the converts will carry on the Aiel tradition, but the Aiel culture, as it is known, will die? I think you will need some quotes to give credence to your theory, but it is an interesting comparison.
2
Caracarn: 2003-10-02
The only problem i see with this theory is that the current aiel broke away from the jenn aiel but they both had the same past, where the nobels mimicking the aiel and the actually aiel have no real relationship, the nobles are not aiel who left the waste and abandon aiel culture.
3
Callandor: 2003-10-02
The Aiel already area a remnant of a Remnant.
The first Aiel were the Da'shain Aiel of the AoL. During the Breaking they split into the Jenn Aiel and the Tinkers. That was the first remnant; the Jenn.
The second split was when Rand arrived and told the true history of the Aiel. The Shaido split off from the rest of the Aiel and are concidered almost already another people all together; they are despised terribly. That was the second split; the second remnant.
Once the Shaido are destroyed the prophacey is fulfilled: The remnant of a remnant, all the clans of the Aiel except the Shaido, live on and the Shaido are destroyed.
4
Anubis: 2003-10-03
another problem, the nobles arent aiel. they just "practice" jay eee toh
HA SCREW SPELLING
5
Rand-althor: 2003-10-03
They didn't split because no wiolence was not good enough for them. They would have been fine with it, untill one Aeil (forget the name) killed accenentally. They took the spears, because they could be used to hunt. When they got back to the other Aeil, they were outcast, and gathered others that felt the same.
6
jaellon: 2003-10-03
It seems that if we include the Shaido, there have been three splits from the original Aiel of the Age of Legends:
1) The Traveling People abandoned the charge to protect the (sa'|ter')angreal of the Aes Sedai and left to rediscover "the song".
2) A small group of children took up weapons to defend one of their own, and were thus abandoned by their families as murderers. Being stung by the injustice, they insisted they were still Aiel. The castaways became the modern clans of the Aiel, while the casters became known as the Jenn Aiel.
3)The Shaido split from the other clans, made war upon the "treekillers," and have now almost completely severed ties to the main body of Aiel.
It would be interesting if the Shaido are the only ones Rand can save, and they turn out to be the "remnant of a remnant."
7
Deadsy: 2003-10-04
I think it is either the Aiel who threw down their spears and ran, or all the Aiel gai'shain. Since gai'shain can't touch weapons, they probably won't be in the fighting.
8
Caramoor: 2003-10-05
Yes, I actually made that prediction of the Shaido being the Remnant left (others probably did too).
I beleive the other Aiel are Rand's blood spilt at Shayol Ghul. They are the core that will give their lives willingly.
The Shaido will avoid the last battle if possible, since they are outcasts of the other Nations. They will not follow Rand because they do not feel he is the Caracarn.
But they are willing to shed tradition and custom, even abandon Ji'e toh when convenient. They are the only likely choice to be molded or transformed into a pacifistic society over time.
9
Rhodric: 2003-10-06
Caramoor:
"They (the shaido) are the only likely choice to be molded or transformed into a pacifistic society over time.
based on their current goals and leadership, there is no evidence to even suggest that the shaido will become a pacifist society. the remnant will more likely be gai'shain, or aiel who choose to serve Aes Sedai.
10
Anubis: 2003-10-09
what about the brotherless? they seem to be disgrunteled with the shaido lack of honor. its possible that they will change and become somthing entirely different.
11
Caramoor: 2003-10-10
My point was that the Shaido are more likely to give up ji' e toh than any other Aeil because they are willing to turn a blind eye to breeches in it currently. Besides, who can say what will happen over time? All Aeil were pacifists at one time. Now they are the greatest warriors in the world. The Shaido will be the remnant of a remnant.
12
Jalwin Moerad: 2003-10-12
For everyone who thinks that the "remnant of the remant" will be the Shaido, I must point out one thing. It would impossible for every other Aiel to die. Besides the half-million or so warriors on the east of the Dragonwall (I think it's something like that, correct me if I'm wrong), there are easily four or five times that many still in their holds. It would take extreme dedication to exterminate every last one. I think that what the "remnant of the remnant" prophecy means has more to do with who the Aiel are. I think he will change their identity; perhaps every clan chief will die, or the columns of Rhuidean will be destroyed, wiping clean the history of the Aiel. I just think it's unlikely that EVERY Aiel except Shaido/brotherless/lucky few will die.
13
Caramoor: 2003-10-13
But we must remember that the Aiel that support Rand are diminishing every day. A hard core will be left and all will follow Rand to the last battle and likely die. Who's to say what can happen in the last battle, which should be the harbinger of another breaking. Whole nations have been destroyed, I;m sure its possible that the Aiel can as well. They even believe it will happen.
14
DaisharMalkier: 2003-10-13
1. Anubis is right about the spelling. 2. The prophecies around the Aile are as murky as those around the Athan Miere and the Dragon Reborn so it could mean that the Aiel all die or that some live but it means that Rand's little list of hundreds of women who have died for him will get a little longer.
15
jaellon: 2003-10-13
I have to agree with you Jalwin. I still think it would be _interesting_ if the Shaido were the only ones left, but I concede that is rather unlikely. It is more likely that remnants of each battle group will be left, as well as remnants (or all) of the populations of the holds. What you said.
16
jackmisfit: 2003-10-13
This is the first time I've posted on this site, so hopefully I'm not repeating someone elses thread...
"The Remnant of a remnant"... I think that the easiest way to look at it would be that the Aiel as we know them, the violent, bloodthirsty crew, were the ones that seperated from from the peaceful Aiel, (who became the Tinkers), that would be the remnant. (Didn't most of them die in the breaking of the world?)
I would think that the remnant of that remnant will be the Aiel that survive to the end of the series.
I also think there are going to be two ways the Aiel will be thinned out, one is that a ton are going to be killed in the upcoming battles and the second is that it seems like an awful lot of them are becoming peaceful, kinda like the Tinkers.
My bet is that the Aiel that remain after the fighting will be a small army that protects the kingdom, kinda like the police, and the majority that survive will merge with the Tinkers to return to ways of the peaceful Aiel, (from before the breaking).
17
jofra: 2003-10-17
Heres my take on the Remnant of a Remnant.
The Prophecies of the entire WoT world are woefully misinterpteted. Ergo, the WOs have misinterpreted. The Remnant would be the Tinkers, IMO. They are the closest we have to the Gaishain-no doing harm to any creature {except for Dark Friends and those like Aram}. As for the Aiel, I dont anticipate any loss greater to them than to the rest of the world. There will be great population loss, but not cataclysmic.
AS for the Last Battle being held at Shayol Ghul, I dont buy it. That will be Rands and LTTs doing. The Great Battle will occur elsewhere, probably at Caralain Grass, IMO. Just look at all the great armies concentrated in the general vacinity.
18
broon7: 2004-01-03
Now for my two cents. I think that almost every "Aiel" as we know them is going to die. Someone mentioned that there are too many too kill them all or some such. But think about it. The Last Battle is coming. It's going to be a huuuuuge war. And part of the Aiel prophecy is that "he will spill the blood of those called Aiel as water on sand". Sounds to me like a whoooole heck of a lot are going to bite the dust. I think though that a handful of "Aiel" as we know them may survive. Avhienda, maybe one or two of the prominent Wise Ones, a clan chief or two. Now for the interesting part. I think the remnant of a remnant is going to be the Tinkers. If you remember from TSR, when Rand is in the columns at Rhuidean, in one of the flashbacks a group of Jenn split off because they remember that there was singing and all that stuff blah blah. And they left the jenn wagons to go find the song which is exactly what the tinkers do. So, the Jenn are a remnant of the now existing Aiel, and the Tinkers are a remnant of the Jenn, thus "a remnant of a remnant". That's my two cents.
19
Khyprus: 2004-06-14
To thouse of you who think most of the Aiel will die how are you going to have all the Aiel in the waist killed? Lets see, 500000 Aiel west of the dragonwall, not any old ppl and no children, the only women are the wise ones and Spear Maidens. So, we have the MAJORITY of the Aiel in the desert. It is impossible that much more then 500000 Aiel will die. And someone said the last battle will occur on the carralain grass, try thinking of all the military aspects, Elyas has said the Carralain grass is almoust waterless, it will be hard to get food there, none wants the grass because there is nothing there = no armies would want to got there (except for the borderland army that wanted to avoid detection)
20
Far Dareis Mai: 2004-07-13
I think the remnant of a remnant is going to be the people left in the waste. All of the warriors will be killed/throw down their spears. It can't be the Tinkers, because they're not even considered Aiel anymore.
And to the people who think there have already been 3 remnants (Dashain - Tinkers - Warriors - Shaido) I disagree because the Shaido are still Aiel, they're just honorless dogs. When the Tinkers left, they were given a new name and cast out as "Lost Ones". When the warriors emerged, they were thrown out of the wagons and again split with two names the "Aiel" and the "Jenn Aiel". The Shaido haven't been renounced as Aiel (not to say that it won't happen, just that it hasn't yet).
