1
Tamyrlin: 2003-11-04
I don't think I noticed that it was year 999, but we all know that Jordan will be finishing the series with two to three books (I am of the opinion, three). So, it would fit that the Last Battle will occur in year 1000, if such is the case. Are you of the belief that the Fourth Age will be like the AoL, with the DO completely sealed away, and the knowledge of war will be lost. Or, will the Fourth Age begin with death, destruction, chaos, and the world will call out for the return of the Dragon Reborn, who has defeated the DO at the Last Battle, but the world keeps on with their wars?
2
Callandor: 2003-11-04
**So, it would fit that the Last Battle will occur in year 1000, if such is the case.**
It is the mid winter (almost start of the new year) 1000 NE at the end of CoT, I believe.
3
Weird Harold: 2003-11-05
"If you've been reading carefully you might have realized that it is the year 999."
Actually, CoT ended just after the Spring Equinox (Late March/Early April) in the Year 1000 NE.
A new Millineum does not begin with the year 1000 (or 2000) it begins with 1001 or 2001.
Also, the New Era calendar is not synchronized with the actual number of years since the Breaking -- which is itself an arbitrary and inexact date.
T'G, AKA "something climactic," is certainly near, but the calendar date doesn't have anything to do with it.
4
Sensir: 2003-11-14
the fact that its near the end doesnt mean that theres some date sequence like in ghostbusters or soem other dumb movie but i see what ya mean. i never really got the calender and im not so far into these books i know too much but what i do know is that the treaty with the seanchan has to work or else the dragon reborns short a few countries. But how is that gonna work. The seanchan want to rule and unless the 9 moons lady and mat get married which wil happen in the next book i think that its gonna get messed up. They also have another problem. The forsaken are coming back mat and his woman gotta get something going;) and mat still has to own manetheren like min foresaw. not to mention the white tower being whole randgainging power in the black tower and perrins wife and the shaido being wrecked. so i think that RJ is misleading us witht he clanedar as it was said its not in order with the breaking.
5
Callandor: 2003-11-15
**i never really got the calender and im not so far into these books i know too much but what i do know is that the treaty with the seanchan has to work or else the dragon reborns short a few countries.**
It doesn't HAVE to work out, it would be nice if it did (and most likely will) but it doesn't HAVE to.
**not to mention the white tower being whole randgainging power in the black tower and perrins wife and the shaido being wrecked. so i think that RJ is misleading us witht he clanedar as it was said its not in order with the breaking.**
Do not know what that means.
6
brigitta: 2003-11-19
I do not agree that it is the year 999, because, as you remember, Lews Therin lived approximately 3000 years before Rand. I remind you, that Hawkwing roamed the lands about 1500 years after Lews, then followed some hundred years of mayham and the throne of Andor has stood for some 800 years. also, the aiel memories Rand got in Rhuidean suggest that the aiel have been living in the waste for at least a thousand years, although it is not said exactly and the newest memory dates from the uniting of the aiel tribes. Another point is Mat. it is said, that his new memories do not date back before Hawkwings time, yet he has hundreds, and none of them living at once, if you know what I mean. So, all in all, your datind is a little off in my mind, but otherwise i agree with your theory.
7
brigitta: 2003-11-19
and an afterthought: I do realize that Jordan's dating system is as it is, but still, am I really the only one puzzled? even if the breaking by LT happened some 1000 years ago, it is NOT POSSIBLE for the legends to fade to myth and be forgotten in so short time. eg. the meteor crash on Saaremaa, which occurred about 3000 years ago( the scientists are still arguing) is referred to in greec mythology, uralic, norse, finnish mythology and is even referred to in the Bible as the gateway to hell (something about it being located on a sacred island, to where Lucifer fell from heaven as a big fiery ball and leaving a hole in the earth). As you can see, all these thories about this certain disaster are rather far-fetched and unreal, but after 3000 years they have not completely vanished. Now, I do not question the thory of something BIG happening, maybe even all the theories and predictions put togeter, but I really am confused. even if all the knowledge was lost and the knowledge of reading and writing with it, there would still be stories and songs to be passed along to the children. The world just does not cange so fast, it takes generations of I don't know what to make an idea stick firmly to the bone, as it has with the aiel... anyway, maybe I'm mixing our world with WoT too much and all this makes no sense, but I just wanted to let you know
8
Callandor: 2003-11-19
**even if the breaking by LTT happened some 1000 years ago, it is NOT POSSIBLE for the legends to fade to myth and be forgotten in so short time.**
Put it like this: An electromagnetic pulse covers the entire world, and no electrical equipment will work, then all the people start going to war with each other over control and power, and natural disasters, like floods, earthquakes, and volcano erruptions occur at a 400% increase over normal times. After 300 or so years of just THAT, you would forget quite a bit about what your great-great-grandfather lived through and the stories and legends that he knew and learned. Then add another 3000 years. It becomes VERY realitic.
9
Shadar Darei: 2003-11-19
In response to Tamyrlin:
Currently I am in belief that the 4th Age will come in Rand's time without the LB. I have no idea how or why it will come about, but it would overly anticlimactic if in the 3rd Age Rand sealed the DO away and he broke free again in the 4th Age.
The only evidence to point against this happening is
"And it came to pass in those days, as it had come before and would come again, that the Dark lay heavy on the land..."
However, the only thing we know about that quote is that it was in the 4th age. We don't know if it is from the 4th Age coming up or from one that happened a thousand turnings before.
**even if the breaking by LTT happened some 1000 years ago, it is NOT POSSIBLE for the legends to fade to myth and be forgotten in so short time.**
To that I'd just like to say that an Age isn't forgetten when the next one comes along. As concisely as possible Memories become Legends
Legends become Myth
Myth is then forgetten by the time the age that started it begins again.
Length of the current age has nothing to do with this theory. No matter what happens it will be forgotten in another turning. Ages do not have to be a set length of time just however long it takes for something to trigger the next. One Age could be 1,000 years long and the next 5,000.
10
Shadar Darei: 2003-11-19
Just thought I'd add that it could already be the 4th Age. It's highly unlikely, but whose to say what exactly triggers a new age. Maybe it was the Corenne or maybe a turning is still in the works. Even if an event effecting the entire world did occur does it mean that it's a new age. Who makes that call? How could that person be sure that it had to be a new age? This really should be another theory, but I thought I'd put that out there.
11
Stanzi: 2003-11-20
*and is even referred to in the Bible as the gateway to hell (something about it being located on a sacred island, to where Lucifer fell from heaven as a big fiery ball and leaving a hole in the earth*
Sorry, but Lucifer was never mentioned in the Bible. Satan was, but that term merely meant adversary. And while there references to a Lord or Prince of the Morning, that dealt with the planet Venus and various Eastern beliefs that the star or planet was the rebirth of their god every day. Jesus was in fact thought be associated with it. Lucifer is thought to mean Lord of the dawn or something like that, so that is the only refernce to him in the Bible, but that's really stretching it there. And hell is not mentioned, and the Holy War among the angels certainly is not mentioned any where.
Sorry, Catholic school girl who also is majoring in anthropology here.
12
Mairashda: 2003-11-25
lucifer is derived from the latin lux, lucis- light, and ferre- to carry... and no, there is certainly no mention of him or it in the bible. one or several of the apokryphae, however, do mention the rebellion and fall of parts of the angelic host. parts of the bible that were said to describe or allude those events were actually about some babylonian king... those little subtleties of the original text were lost when parts of the old testament were first translated into latin... if intentionally so, who knows?
13
Aelfinn: 2004-01-29
****even if the breaking by LTT happened some 1000 years ago, it is NOT POSSIBLE for the legends to fade to myth and be forgotten in so short time.**
**Put it like this: An electromagnetic pulse covers the entire world, and no electrical equipment will work, then all the people start going to war with each other over control and power, and natural disasters, like floods, earthquakes, and volcano erruptions occur at a 400% increase over normal times. After 300 or so years of just THAT, you would forget quite a bit about what your great-great-grandfather lived through and the stories and legends that he knew and learned. Then add another 3000 years. It becomes VERY realitic. **
I agree. Light, unless you're a scholar or forced to learn it by your idiot teacher, most people don't even like heck know that much about the middle ages! And we have better ways of retention (sp?) of information than before; computers, so many books, et cetera.
And oral traditions only last for a "short time without being distorted beyond recognition".
Think of it this way. If you're told there's a disaster coming to wherever you live, you have two hours to leave, there isn't a place prepared for you, and you'll never be able to come back, what do you bring? Certainly not books, at least not about long-past history you don't even care about. You'll bring your family and pets, food, extra clothes, a survival pack. If the government's still intact, you'll bring personal information and money, to set up a new life somewhere else, but if everything's going to heck around you, there's two hours to leave before your town gets completely bloody destroyed, the country barely exists....... I think not.
If there's an isolated group of people, and they're just struggling to survive without any added difficulties (like in the flaming middle of nowhere and don't know how to live like that), then what are they going to pass on to their children? First and foremost, ways to survive. Secondly, whatever determines their new culture. If that group of people was randomly chosen, with the only previously-existing groups being families, then it's pretty certain those randomly-chosen people won't have all the knowledge from before to pass on.
I'm gonna use the Aes Sedai as an example. With the Hall of Servants destroyed, and all male ones going insane for seemingly no reason, the world changing every bloody second, someone sure doesn't have the time and concentration to remember every bloody detail they once learned. Someone with a knack for Healing, even if they learned other things, wouldn't remember much else. Even when groups of Aes Sedai gathered together, who would pass on the knowledge? Invariably, it's the not-so-good people who end up teaching. They didn't have the strength to make Gateways, so couldn't teach it to those who DID. Travelling is a lost Talent. And the ability to make cuendillar was rare in the first place. The world was all screwed up, so how would one person with that Talent be able to find another? Thus, another lost Talent.
Think, and if all electricity was wiped out, plenty of people wouldn't know ANYTHING. They made computer programming their only knowledge, and as long as there's computers, that's great. But with no electricity... Why pass on wasted knowledge? No one would likely bother with REGULAR knowledge for a while, just trying to keep the world from falling apart.
I'm giving myself not that much time, in comparison to Randland. Let's say that in 100 years it came back again. No one would know how to program computers!
14
IkilledAsmodean: 2004-02-15
First of all, Weird Harold. The only reason for the Millenium starting with 1 is that there was enver a year 0, due to Christian high and mightys not wanting Christ to be born on 0. So, it very well could have been a 0 in Randland, thus making the new millenium 1000.
Also, RJ seems to like even numbers, and since no one character has mentioned what is going on and how its odd that it is an important yea,r it could end up meanig something. Also, the series is thus far 10 books, over about 2 to 2.5 years. So, two of three books over about the last three quarters of a ayear is probable.
15
shepherder: 2004-12-05
Is it just me, or is everybody blind? After the little poem in the end of CoT, it says that it is "Written lately in the PREVIOUS AGE, CALLED THIRD AGE BY SOME." I don't think I'm quoting perfectly now, but the meaning is there. And, as the start says that it is still the third age, the turning into the fourth must have happened somewhere in the timeline of CoT. The only happening major enough is the cleansing of Saidin. It makes sense. The age starts with the tainting of Saidin and ends with the Cleansing.
16
Gareth: 2004-12-06
i stand with shepherder (and my sprears stand with me :))
The cleansing of saidin is the kind of event that may mark the beginning of a new age. But I think the characters in randland can't be aware of that yet. Awareness will come after major changes in civilisation have occured. So scholars and historians will need decades at least and more probably centuries before they can say: before the cleansing, civilisation was so; after the cleansing, it became totally different therefore the cleansing was what ended the third age and began the fouth one.
17
Aiel Finn: 2004-12-06
Though the cleansing is a huge event, it's not the tainting that marks the end of the AoL. The Breaking marks the end. (I may be wrong though). I think that the LB is going to be the end of the 3rd age. The cleansing isn't visible to everyone, the LB will be.
18
Satin alEllien Moonsong: 2004-12-07
i agree with shepherder 100%!!!
*crosses arms and guards shepherder*
19
JakOShadows: 2005-05-03
Now I'm not exactly sure about the Companions, but LTT goes mad immediately after he puts the seals on the DO's prison and then he kills the Daishain Aeil and his family. So wouldn't that be the start of the breaking officially. If he was as powerful as he was, he was probably very well known and talked about. That would be something akin to the president being assassinated. So that would be a reasonably big event to start an age. Then, as the companions start doing the same thing and all the other male channelers too, they would relate it to the same thing as LTT. That's how he probably became so infamous, because he was the first and probably "considered the cause" of the breaking. Hence, why people misunderstand the Dragon Reborn prophecies and how they don't even who's side he's on sometimes. In my opinion, it could be considered the start of the age because that's what caused the big events to start happening.
And about Rand coming back, I think that excerpt that you were talking about, Shadar Darei, is refering to the time of great evil(like the trolloc wars or some such), when they are wanting a savoir to come a them and they are remembering how the dragon saved the world and trapped the Dark One. They wanting him to come again to help them fight this evil. It is not refering to the here and now, saying he will come again. It is saying that the people in that time wanted the dragon to come and now he has come.
20
Jiana: 2005-05-03
How does one know when an Age has ended? Allow me to expand. We are currently in the 3rd Age, which makes the Age of Legends the 2nd Age. What about the 1st Age, before the AoL? What was the world like at that time? What heralded the end of it? Was it a cataclysm, or did it simply phase itself out? My husband, Qadin, that I have mentioned before, asked me to pose a question (he doesn't see the point in both of us being members). The question is as follows: Since we don't know how the first age ended and how the AoL started, how do we know that the AoL was the second age? Isn't it possible that what we are reading in the "here and now" is occurring in what is actually the 2nd age, and that the AoL was in fact the last half of the 1st age?
21
Callandor: 2005-05-03
**The question is as follows: Since we don't know how the first age ended and how the AoL started, how do we know that the AoL was the second age? Isn't it possible that what we are reading in the "here and now" is occurring in what is actually the 2nd age, and that the AoL was in fact the last half of the 1st age?**
How do we know? RJ told us. Plus, at the start of the first chapter of every book, it says plainly: in one Age called the 3rd Age. The AoL was the 2nd Age, and whatever came before it was the 1st Age. A lot of people see the end of the 1st Age as being the discovery of channeling, but we really don't know.
And, to be technical, there are definate ends to the Ages, when Shiva and Calian are reborn into the world, they herald the end of an Age. Not very specific, but it shows there is a definate end.
22
Jiana: 2005-05-04
Apparently I have a penchant for unintentionally ignoring the obvious. :) OOOOH, I wonder... Shiva and Calian... wonder if they will be reborn as the babies Aviendha is supposed to have that are healthy but nevertheless there's something wrong with them.....
23
Merk: 2005-05-04
I guess I'm not really understanding this theory.
How is the year 999 year thing a biblical reference?
The quoted prophecy just seems like something written in the Fourth Age (the future from the time the books are written) abuot events that we are watching happen in the Third Age (the DO breaking free and Rand fighting that, the weather going crazy and attempts to correct that, etc.) The people are asking for the Dragon to be reborn, and Rand was born as LTT's rebirth. Something big's obviously coming, because the LB is coming. That will obviously be a momentous event. Whether it is that that becomes the beginning of the Fourth Age, or the birth of the twins, or the cleansing of saidin, we may not know for awhile.
We know there are Ages like our own in which the DO is unknown, and there are Ages (again like our own, but not necessarily do these two things always coincide) that don't know of the ability to channel. It's possible that something will happen to seal the world off from the OP, setting us up for an Age that doesn't know how to channel. I personally don't think so, because I think we're set for the BT and the WT to be powers in the next Age. Or perhaps the DO will be sealed off so completely that soon, in a few generations, it will just be a story or myth, and eventually he will become even less than that, until no one knows he exists anymore, setting us up for Ages like our own and the far-off return of the AoL in which the DO will somehow again be able to touch the world (perhaps through a bore, though it's debateable how closely each Age resembles its previous iterations.)
I'm not sure every time an Age turns it is so completely stark as the example of when the twins are born. And remember, even when they are, it will take time for them to make their mark on the world enough for people to realize that the Age has turned.
24
MatCauthon: 2005-05-04
I don't have the book in front of me but wasn't it Elayne's twins that are supposed to be different? Aviendha is going to have four babies at once and Elayne is going to have twins which are somehow odd. Thats how I remember it at least.
25
Callandor: 2005-05-05
**OOOOH, I wonder... Shiva and Calian... wonder if they will be reborn as the babies Aviendha is supposed to have that are healthy but nevertheless there's something wrong with them.....**
Heh, I see them as Elayne's kids actually, since Shivan and Calian are twins, boy and girl, and Elayne is due for twins, who are boy and girl, and it's assumed that the Age is ending relatively soon... :)
** I don't have the book in front of me but wasn't it Elayne's twins that are supposed to be different? Aviendha is going to have four babies at once and Elayne is going to have twins which are somehow odd. Thats how I remember it at least.**
No, it's Aviendha who is supposed to have 4 kids, but something is "odd" about it, according to Min (myself, I see it as Min is seeing her own kids being "reflected" so to speak by the bond in a viewing -- giving a total of 4 kids for seemingly Aviendha). Elayne's kids have no mention of weirdness around them (except being Elayne's kids....).
26
Aiel Finn: 2005-05-05
While some of Rand's kids may be the age enders, It may just be that RJ was throwing out mythic heroes to go with the horn. Shiva and Kali are the Hindu dieties (male and female resp.) of Destruction. They clear the slate for the next age.
27
JakOShadows: 2005-05-06
I don't think something has to be visible to everyone for it to be an age ender. The breaking just happened to be obvious what and why it happened. But the cleansing of saidin could have world changing affects and therefore change the world by its resulting consequences. And it also coincides with the end of the age of illusions, so it makes complete sense(good theory shepherder). And about the twins Elayne and Min are going to have(or whoever has them), they could be age starters, but I rather think of them as pivotal leaders of the future. If saidin is cleansed, and there's no way it can be tainted again, the society will just build up towards the Age of Legends again. And I believe there will be a lot more about ties to nature(non-power skills) in this next age too, if you think about Perrin, Min, and Hurrin. So maybe they'll have something to do with that. And wouldn't be cool of Min's child had her talent too. Anyways, I don't think of them as age enders, but rather as harbingers of the future, who will bring us back to the age of legends.
