and Kills Lanfear with Balefire powered with the Choeden Kal
by Jammer: 2004-02-05 | Not yet rated
I believe that at Tarmon Gai'don, Rand kills Lanfear (or better said her new incarnation) with balefire.
Now some pointers from the book why I think this'll happen:
1) Rand has problems with killing women, even if they attack him. He keep a list of all the women he killed (or dies because of him) in his head. The paradox would be that for the dragon to win, he must kill his former companion.
2) We know Lanfear bored the hole in the DO's prison.
3) Balefire erases the target from the weave. The stronger it is, the further back the target is erased. With the Choeden Kal, maybe Rand would be able to erase Lanfear from weave completely (or just from the age of legends) Meaning the bore would never have been drilled in the first place.
Now some more support for the theory:
Since the wheel is continuous, after the last age (7) must come age 1 again. Since there was no patch on the DO's prison at the time Lanfear bored a whole to it (it is written that she bores though the weave, and my guess is they would have found it sooner if it was only a patch, with their skills at powerwielding and all) something must happen that prevents the bore from ever being made. Thus my theory.
Also, at some point in time, Lanfears thread must reappear. Since otherwise, since the wheel spins, the forsaken killed with balefire earlier would not have existed at all. So we know that from a certain point onward, thread reappear.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2004-02-14
First of all, the souls of balefired individuals return to a waiting area, "soul pool" as I like to refer to it, awaiting rebirth. If Lanfear was balefired, her soul would return to the SP and she could be reborn at anytime. Second, there is no amount of One Power that can erase a thread back three thousand years. If I recall correctly, Jordan has made that comment in interviews. Plus, it wasn't only Lanfear that bored the whole, she had help from a team, so even removing Lanfear from time might not change the past. As you point out, it would appear the DO's prison in the second Age have never been bored into in the past, so some time over the next three or four ages the bore must be fixed...unfortunately, Jordan only really gives us one Age, and we can't make it contingent on the Third Age to fix the problem, when the Fourth, the Fifth, the Sixth, and Seventh could be the ones to fix it.
2
Callandor: 2004-02-14
**Since the wheel is continuous, after the last age (7) must come age 1 again. Since there was no patch on the DO's prison at the time Lanfear bored a whole to it (it is written that she bores though the weave, and my guess is they would have found it sooner if it was only a patch, with their skills at powerwielding and all) something must happen that prevents the bore from ever being made. Thus my theory.**
But the AoL was the Second Age, since the present one is the Third, so how does the Seventh move to the First if Lanfear, from the Third Age, is balefired back to the Second?
Also, as many people, myself included, have said, if a person could take away a thread that crossed 3000+ years of being in the Pattern, it would unravel everything that they ever did (if of course they had the power to do so, which you assume); hence, there would never have been a Third Age--none at all. That, if nothing else, would unravel the entire Pattern and destroy it.
3
Mairashda: 2004-02-14
This theory has been posted in several variations and yet the main problems remain the same: extinguishing mierin from the pattern strongly enough to last 3000+ years would require an enormous amount of the one power- maybe even more than the choedan kal might be able to handle.
eleminating mierin would change all of history as we know it, creating an unreasolveable paradox, wreaking havoc within the pattern: it would be "destroying the village in order to save it".
(plus I would really, really hate this kind of an ending- but that was also mentioned elsewhere)
4
Anubis: 2004-02-14
the biggest problem with the huge balefire theory is that it would take robert jordan at least another 6 books to wrap everything up. he would have to basicly rewrite everything without lanfear in it. it would be waytoo much work and boring to read and a lame ending anyways.
5
Davian93: 2004-02-14
Think about it. Even Rand pretty much channeling as much as he can only eliminated maybe a half hour when he killed Rahvin with balefire. So even with the CK, it would be impossible for him to eliminate a thread back more than 3,000 years. Besides, who knows how much damage that much balefire would do. Ripping out a thread from 3,000 years of the pattern could tear the pattern asunder and in actuality release the DO from his prison. Lanfear is too essential to the pattern for Rand to be able to destroy everythings she's done back to the boring into the DO's prison. Interesting idea though.:)
6
Great Lord of the Dark: 2004-02-15
Assuming Lanfear has died and been transmigrated into a new body (Cyndane)... would it be possible to balefire Cyndane so that you undo the things she did as Lanfear? Or would the balefire's effects stop at the moment of Cyndane's rebirth? Hmmm....
7
Dragonsworn: 2004-02-17
If Rand balefired Lanfair to the begining then he wouldnt be at Tarmon Gaidon b/c he wouldnt have learned the things he needed which she had Asmododean do
8
Aelfinn: 2004-02-17
Well, getting rid of Cyndane would be pretty useful too!
9
Stanzi: 2004-02-18
I don't really agree with your theory, but I was thinking about her thread being burnt out...
Considering she was sealed in the Bore herself for most of the last 3000 years, other than a few people who did or didn't do something because of fear of childhood bogey man Lanfear, there wouldn't much change. (Uh, that excludes the whole Bore drilling thing...that certainly would alter things a bit...)
10
Korell: 2004-02-18
Great Lord Of The Dark i was thinking the exact same thing as i read this theory in essence Lanfear has been reborn thefore is it even possible (even if unprobable) to BF her any further back the her rebirth as Cyndane i personaly dont think so although there is no presedence for this i am saying it is not possible and as has been said already if you BF her back that far you unravle the pattern
as Q said to Picard in the final episode of Star Trek TNG "watch where you step"
11
New Forsaken: 2004-02-20
Some people have replied that someone that has been balefired can be reborn and we know from the Dark Ones own words in his talk with Demondred in the LOC that they can not be returned and are out of his reach. This would mean the destruction of the soul. I do not see where people can say they can be reborn. The soul is there for the Dark One to bring back or it isn't.
12
Callandor: 2004-02-20
**This would mean the destruction of the soul. I do not see where people can say they can be reborn. The soul is there for the Dark One to bring back or it isn't.**
No, RJ said the soul is immortal. The reason the DO cannot bring back balefired Forsaken, is because their thread is burned back BEFORE the instant they die. The DO would have to go back in time to grab the soul; which he cannot do.
13
charliec: 2004-02-21
New Forsaken... being out of the DO's reach and having your soul totally destroyed are two different things (check out the official website's questions of the week... I think it was Tamyrlin's question...)
RJ says that the DO basically has a window of opportunity to grab a soul, and balefiring closes that window ('cos it starts too early, and may close before the DO knows the soul's available).
I get the impression that balefire doesn't destroy the soul, but puts it out of range for transmigration.
Destroying a soul altogether is a separate thing, which may or may not be possible... one or two forsaken have threatened it, that's all.
