inal Prophecies in a Nutshell
by Shien of the Taardad: 2005-07-20 | 3 out of 10 (12 votes)
Trust Shien. Shien knows all the answers. Like any good Far Dareis Mai, she knows almost all! After all, she has snuck into Rhuidean, and so knows things about the Age of Legends that you suckers can only dream! But she is also nice enough to tell; because seriously. We all trust in RJ, but this is getting old (and far too intricate for the common human brain, to boot).
Well, most of it is stuff you already know, like 'the Blood of the Dragon on the rocks of Shayol Ghul' is a reference to the last remaining blood of Rand on the World of the Wheel aka Randland (unless you count some random relatives of Janduin and Tigraine out there, or if we find out that Kari al'Thor was actually somehow related to the Trakands, hehe hehe...but that's wetlander stuff, and I don't particularly need to know that to know I'm right!). Yep, you've got it. Galadhedrid 'always does the Right thing' Damodred is goin' DOWN! Those rocks have his NAME on them!
There are other references to this day. 'Twice and twice shall he be marked, twice to live and twice to die...twice the dragon for the price he must pay...Twice dawns the day...', etc etc. Easy answer? Rand will die. That's the price he must pay; or one of them. Duh. There's always more than one price. That's what you get for dealing with Aes Sedai; and is there anyone more an Aes Sedai, if a crazy one, than the old Lord of the Grave himself?
Rhetorical question, but it brings us to; yeah, so Randal Thor dies. Will it last? Hell no!!! If it was gonna last, the guy would not have a second life (much less a second death!). Makes sense, right? The secret? A second day's dawning. And that only happens when, yep, you've got it! The only force (besides that odd melding of souls that comes from playing too long in full body in Tel'aran'rhiod which produces a much too old Gaidal Cain, voices in heads, snakes and foxes mixing cousins up and breaking warder bonds, etc etc, and is Moiraine a mewling baby somewhere? yada yada yada) strong enough to alter time on this odd, non-linear, Nordic/Hindu cycle we have come to play in is balefire. Now, granted it would take pretty huge balefire to consume enough time to turn back an entire day; but we've seen some damned good sa'angreal out there, so it's not outside the realm of possibility. So yes, Rand will die. And live again, purged of all this nonsense he's picked up along the way (and since we all miss the nicer Rand and are getting sick of Dragon-Rand, I say about time). And he'll come back not only without that chip on his shoulder, but also without Lews Therin/the original Jesus/Lord of the Dawn archetype in his head (or alternatively and thankfully without whatever arse of a forsaken is trying to drive him nutty; my guess, Mesaana, since those voices all began with Alviarin's bright idea of shoving our fave male channeller into a box, but that's another tangent).
So, to summarize. The key to defeating the DO? Delete all dualities that drive the Wheel and shunt Randland onto a linear time-scheme. Which I'm pretty sure has something to do with deleting the spokes that hold the wheel together, which will make the snake let go of his tail, kill time itself and etc etc. Scary thought, awful thing to contemplate, I know, but it's gonna happen one way or another anyway; either the DO will finally make the Dragon Archetype turn to Evil (never happen, this is a fantasy), or the Dragon Archetype will take on the opposite role of Creator and do it himself without turning (since he never has and never will).
Scary thought, yeah; but I'm sure some of these souls are sick of ping-ponging back and forth like this and would relish just dying and getting it over with, and having the Lord of the Grave keep bringing them back till he wins (or loses) is just getting old. (Incidentally; anybody but me starting to get sick of the Creator just acting like a bystander here? I mean, granted, the whole thing is humanity's fault for being arrogant, digging Bores in transcendental prisons and all, but still! You'd think the almighty could at least bring back the Nym to rally the Ogier and Tuatha'an and fix all this global weather wackiness; or let us find a few decent answer-giving books so we actually know more than just Rhuidean-snippets about the Age of Legends, the War of the Shadow, snakes and foxes et al, or...well, SOMETHING besides just sitting there looking austere and letting us wipe our own bums! I mean, this is fantasy! Dieties are supposed to jump in at some point and give a hand--unlike our current reality! But I digress.)
Okay, so the DO's prison obviously needed sealing from BOTH sides of the OP, not just one (hence saidin-only being a faulty plug). Answer: so you sacrifice both saidin and saidar to fix what man put asunder (in the process closing off the TP forever, as well, as there'll be no more Bore to get it from, etc etc). Just a single part of the price we must all pay, but good riddance, I say. Divisive thing, the OP.
Think about it. When you separate dualities like Fain/DO from Mashadar/Machin Shin and Ishy-Moridin from Ba'al/Shadar Haran, you destroy access to the True Source by untangling the complex weave of both sides of the OP that is the DO unbalanced. Because, looking at this from a purely philosophical place, the taint/evil nature of the DO (who in a way IS the Wheel of Time because he's both sides of the OP and therefore drives the Wheel) could only come from imbalance, right? An imbalance caused by humanity messing with the prison, making bores, etc; which means the DO is really the Creator too; and everything in a duality comes down to Balance or lack thereof, and evil is just the other side of good.
If we manage that leap, then we can presuppose that with Nynaeve's help to supply the needed saidar, we can fix the hole as it never was (rather in the same was they used Mashadar-taint against DO-taint to destroy both equal opposites, or use both saidar and saidin to replug an OP wielder into the source to heal stilling/gentling, et al). The upshot of all of this would be that we'd finally use Demandred Taim and Logain to proper effect (no one so deep in the Shadow and blah blah blah, and we all know Logain is like Demandred's younger brother or something), and in the process we'll get rid of an annoyance like Galad 'always does the Right thing' Damodred (since for him the right thing would be fighting the DO by giving his own life to fulfil that part of the Prophecy in time to give his half brother more of a running start on the Bore and all that, and it's just something the guy would do); bring back a nice shepherd boy who can then have his harem in relative peace (the dude has EARNED it!) and live in obscurity somewhere between the ocean that used to be the Three-Fold land and the new Manetheren. We can also rebuild Malkier; have a world of Wolves running free each with a falcon perched on his shoulder; reinstate Mat Hawkwing and get rid of the whole damane/sul'dam travesty (having gotten rid of both saidar and saidin so there's no need for leashing); reunite the Seanchan with all the more sane strands of humanity; find the library of Alexandria hidden beneath the sphinx's paws over in Shara (or alternatively under the Tower of Genji or something); finally figure out what the heck those Sharans and their dragons are up to anyway (seriously, they've got to show up sometime, right? No one in this world can just sit this one out! C'mon, Sharans: show some backbone! What the heck are they hiding over there, anyway?! I mean, besides dragons?); and otherwise tie up all loose ends.
Oh, and the seals? The solution is simple. Let all the Forsaken self-destruct. Unstable bunch, with all that sibling rivalry, and they seem to like killing each other off anyway.
*dusts hands off*
It's really so SIMPLE!
Respectfully submitted by Shien of the Taardad; Alter Ego of Verin the Original Sedai, and Wise One in disguise.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2005-08-26
I can appreciate a mind like yours that it takes to write what you wrote, because not everyone can do it that way. However, why would balefire purge him, if it could happen as you suggest? Balefire doesn't seem to alter time in the sense that events change. Instead, it almost rewinds time, removes events as though they never happened. Also, how do you suggest time to be killed, or to change time in such a manner that it becomes "linear"? Interesting thoughts, when they can be followed, but you created more questions about your own thoery than you answered. The One Power is not a bad hunch for fixing the prison. The seals, I believe, allowed for the taint, because it became more of a containment. However, beyond the tainting, the seals were an effective means of plugging up the hole for a few thousand years.
2
William Seeker: 2005-08-26
Balefire make a day dawn twice? I think the prophetic mystism is confusing your reason. All balefire does is burn back the thread it was used on. So what happened because of that person until whatever point in time the threads burned back to hasn't happened, only memories remain. Even if you killed enough people with balefire to erease what was done on that day, their wouldn't be enough people left for anything to happen. Are you trying to suggest balefire be used directly on the pattern somehow?
3
Traveller: 2005-08-27
yeah, William really does have a point, coz I really wanted the whole balefire thing to work out, but what he says is true- the day will not dawn twice if Rand is balefired.
However, you have an amazing way of putting your points across that makes me want to say "Yup, 10 out of ten, 100%, you have got it" but unfortunately something at the back of my brain is protesting, so I won't.
4
Jumai: 2005-08-28
Galad is not Rand's only living close relative. Never forget Slayer.
5
Ozymandias: 2005-08-28
I don't really understand where the rationale for this was coming from, and I don't really want to debate it, but it sounded liek a great post (lol). Anyways, I have one question. We know that when someone is balefired, everything they did until the point where the balefire stops burning their thread is undone. As in, if Rand were to be balefired so that he can live again, by the time he comes back to life, all of what he did comes apart, so the Bore still exists and whatnot. I think thats the problem, at least one of the root problems, with this idea. But as I said, it sounded convincing, and thats half the battle.
And while this is certainly an already discussed theory, couldn't it be more likely that Rand just gets badly hurt, and then something happens with the LTT persona conflict thing? I mean, that satisfies tha whole "blood on the rocks" part. And if Rand and LTT are forced to merge at the last second, say, to gain the knowledge (provided by ghost of LTT) and the access to the power (provided by Rand) to seal the Bore? Then Rand "dies" because he ceases to exist as Rand. Then he's like "Rand Therin Telamon" or something jazzy like that. Either that, or LTT is finally banished from his head. Then you have blood, and thew death of the Dragon, aka, his spirit or whatever is finally banished/put to rest/ done away with. the Dragon dies, Rand lives. that does it too. And seems a little more likely than someone balefiring an entire day (is that even possible?)
6
Balinor: 2005-09-07
This whole thing is so far out there, I don't know where to begin. I'm not even sure we've been reading the same series of books! The voice in Rand's head certainly did not start after he was put in the box, it was there long before that. It sounds to me like the only rationale you have for your theory is that "this is the way I think things should turn out, so therefore this IS the way things will turn out." Unless you're actually RJ in disguise, I really can't give any credence to your overlong, rambling theory.
7
Traveller: 2005-09-10
Ozymandias: I don't know whether you got the wrong end of the stick or I did, but I got the impression that Rand wasn't balefired, the person/thing that killed him was, therefore undoing their actions, and Rand being alive again. None of rands actions were undone so the seal is still sealed.
8
jagaidan: 2005-09-14
"twice dawns the day" in my opnion states an event which is probaly similar to what happens in the mahabharat an Indian myhtological epicoin which lord krishna aka GOD/ Creator arranges for a solar eclipse to occur at a pivotal point of time during a battle between good and evil to help the good guys win, so i think this probably means that the creator might participate in the final battle to help the good guys by providing a diversion at a crucial point when rand and the dark one are duelling, shaitan and the forsaken would obviuosly be distracted momentarily and the dragon or his substitute fighting can take advantage of this to win the battle.
9
Anubis: 2005-09-14
I highly doubt that balefire will be involved in Rands rebirth. For one, its been done before, and for two it would be amazingly stupid and I would write RJ letters complaining and then tag his house with a paintball gun. And we know he doesnt want that.