livia
by Someshta: 2003-06-23 | Not yet rated
This is my first post. Go easy
Alivia is a new character right? As is Cyndane? Well, it's pretty obvious that Cyndane is Lanfear, I hope we all know that one, but what happened to Moiraine? Suppose that DO didnt pull Lanfear out of Finnland, but she was released, or something like that. Cyndane is alot weaker than Lanfear, (as noted by Graendael) and as posted on this site, many people, and rightly so, believe she was artificially enhanced by an angreal, or maybe an odd ter'anreal, or sa'angreal, or something else.
Now, look at Alivia. Aes Sedai have been getting weaker and weaker since the breaking, and here comes a channeler that is stronger than Lanfear (end of WH), one of the strongest women in the AoL. Lanfear thought she had an angreal also, but what if it was Moiraine, in a form of disguise? Cyndane looks not at all like Lanfear, same with Alivia and Moiraine. What if when the Finns took Lanfear's chunk of power, they gave it to Moiraine? Alivia is "destined" to help Rand, helping "kill" him, in whatever forms necessary. This is also going against all the "Alivia is Ilyena," and "Moiraine is trapped." All worthy theories, but I like mine.
Tear it to pieces, Tamyrlin
You cannot rate theories without first logging in. Please
log in.
1
Tamyrlin: 2003-06-26
Me? Tear to pieces? I get a bad rap. :) Okay, well I have had thoughts along the same line, but this quotes provides some problems.
<br>TITLE: Winter's Heart,CHAPTER: 8 - The Sea Folk and Kin<br>
"Two of the Seanchan women, Marille and Jillari, still say they deserve to be collared, need to be collared." Reanne's mouth tightened with distaste, but she paused for only a moment. "They truly seem horrified at the prospect of freedom. Alivia has stopped that. Now she says it was only because she was afraid she would be retaken. She says she hates all the sul'dam, and she certainly makes a good show of it, snarling at them and cursing them, but. . . ." She shook her head slowly in doubt. "She was collared at thirteen or fourteen, Elayne, she's not certain which, and she's been damane for four hundred years! And aside from that, she is . . . she's . . . Alivia is considerably stronger than Nynaeve," she finished in a rush. Age, the Kin might discuss openly, but they had all the Aes Sedai reticence about speaking of strength in the Power. "Do we dare let her free? A Seanchan wilder who could tear the entire Palace apart?" The Kin shared the Aes Sedai view of wilders, too. Most did."
<br>As far as we know, Alivia is a very old and very powerful Seanchan channeler. Is it possible that she is making up her story? Sure, but how did the Pattern or the Finns get her there? It would have to be some time warp or soul stuffing, and that doesn't seem likely. See, that wasn't too harsh. :)
2
The Leveler: 2003-06-26
But the books have Cyndane thinking that the EElfinn burned some of the ability to channel out of her.
3
Mairashda: 2003-06-27
I'd be seriously disappointed if Alivia turned out to be anybody but a freed damane... sure it seems weird that she alone of the captured damane wants to be free but there are at least two easy explanations for this:
1) ta'veren. after all rand needs her.
2) she has been damane for so long, a nice, playful, obedient damane that nobody really attempted to squat thoughts and dreams of rebellion or freedom anymore... 300years of dreaming and hatred might undo a few months of breaking her spirit, yes?
4
Mylo: 2003-06-28
I've been saying this since Jan of 01 (see predictions) and whole heartedly concur. The biggest factors that I saw pointing to this was that:
1. Alivia's change from passive to actively hating sul'dam's was very sudden. As if it were two different people.
2. She is not intimidated by Nynaeve.
3. She automatically defers to Cadsuanne.
Numbers two and three would definately be traits Moiraine would have.
I'll admit that "sould stuffing" is a little far fetched, but if Alivia was captured - perhaps she actually died in battle, and it was a convienant body for Moiraine to be put back into. Also, as far as strength goes, if Cyndane/Lanfear can decrease in strength, why can't Moiraine/Alivia increase in strength - perhaps they even switched strengths.
5
Someshta: 2003-06-29
Well, I'm not sure about this, but it kinda fits for me.
Alot of you fellow Theorylanders think that "soul-stuffing" is a fairly far-fetched idea, but it happened. Theres a section somewhere, where Aran'gar and Osan'gar are introduced, and they are discussing their new bodies. Either Shadar Haran or Moridin talks with them, and I'm pretty sure he says something around the lines of "These were the best bodies we could get" I don't know where this is though. Maybe they were killed, and the bodies fresh for a new soul, or the other souls were "kicked-out". And, I seem to remember the other damane being suspicious of Alivia. It might just be the sudden alignment change, but I wonder if maybe the other damane had never heard of her, i would think other damane would have heard of a 400+ year old damane of emmense power. (think about it)but like that guy said, maybe she just died, and pulled an osan/aran, did a soul stuffing type thing.
6
Weird Harold: 2003-06-29
Someshta said, "...i would think other damane would have heard of a 400+ year old damane of emmense power."
400+ is not a particularly notable age for any female channeler other than Aes Sedai and perhaps Alivia's strength is no more exceptional among Damane than her age.
If Alivia did have any fame among the damane or Seanchan it would be on the scale of a championship attack dog's fame, but she seems to have been "just another miltary damane" in that regard.
7
Callandor: 2003-06-29
Yes, we have seen reincarnation, BUT! we have only seen it when the DO does it, and ONLY with the Forsaken so far. And that is a very select group. So, the DO can do it, with souls of the Forsaken not balefired (or as RJ hints not destroyed so the DO cant grab them). We have no proof of the Finn being able to do it, let alone Alivia being a person having it done to them. To me, shes a 400 year old Seanchan ex-damane who is increadibly strong and is allied with Rand.
8
Anubis: 2003-06-30
hmm, the seanchan dont seem to really rank strength. maybe the suldan MIGHT have noticed, either way is possible. but i highly doubt other dammae would have heard about it, and i doubt discussion of dammae strength would be somthing nobles would care about.
also somthing to consider is that the average damae would be significantly stronger then the average aes sedai (the spark thing) so there would be no damae unable to light a candle type thing. so to sum up i dont think the sean chan really gauge damae strength adn sorry bout the butcherd spelling of everything
9
Rhodric: 2003-06-30
Assuming the Finns can soul-stuff, this fits perfectly in my mind. The Finns take some of Lanfear's strength and give it to Moiraine, and then throw her in a different body. They then throw her in the middle of a battlefield ready for rand's asha'man to pick up. (Taveren effect?)
If it is true and Alivia is Moiraine in a *new* body, then how do you explain alivia's blushing reactions to Min's explanation of the birds and the bees?
that's the only problem i have with this theory.
10
juitzhead: 2003-06-30
its my belief (and a lot of other peoples) that trasmigration is the DO's gift to his Chosen and part of the immortality gift. I think that the DO can do this, and only with the chosen, with the black chord connections.
Alivia is just another character, like so many others, with a special purpose in the WoT, but she is not Ilyena or Moiraine.;)
11
Ared: 2004-05-25
My main problem with this theory is that since the DO soul-stuff Lanfear into Cyndane's body, who would do the soul-stuffing for Moiraine? The Finns don't seem particularly concerned about good vs. evil so I don't see why they would take the time to do it, and the creator obviously isn't going to do it because he doesn't do anything, and there is no one else of a power great enough to do it. The DO wouldn't, the Finns wouldn't, there's no one left to do it. Alivia can't be Moiraine.
12
mazrimashaman: 2005-04-09
I have both ways in my mind, so I will say them,
for moiraine: The fins grant wishes so what happens is that: moirain and lanfear fall into finland, demand to be sent back to the real world, and the consequince is lanfeare loosing her strength, and moirain gaining some, but also not being entirely there mentaly, she trys to play cats cradle and all that.
Against moiraine: alivia is much stronger, no evidence that the fins can do soul stuffing, she is 400 years old, she still acts kidish.
some of these do go back on each other, so Im not realy sure wich would be wich.
