ourage OR Fire OR Music OR Iron
by Deadsy: 2004-04-02 | 6 out of 10 (4 votes)
I don't think Thom/Mat/Olver/whoever would need to combine music, fire, iron, and courage to beat the Aelfinn and Eelfinn.
TsR Chapter 28: Tower of Ghenjei:
"All children do. At least, they do in the Two Rivers. But they give it up when they get old enough to realize there's no way to win."
"Except to break the rules," she said. " 'Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to daze, iron to bind.' "
"That's a line from the game. I don't understand. What does it have to do with this tower?"
"Those are the ways to win against the snakes and the foxes. The game is a remembrance of old dealings. It does not matter so long as you stay away from the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn. They are not evil the way the Shadow is evil, yet they are so different from humankind they might as well be. They are not to be trusted, archer. Stay clear of the Tower of Ghenjei. Avoid the World of Dreams, if you can. Dark things walk."
Birgitte says it in plural. "Those are the ways." If a combination was needed to beat them, I think she would say "That is the way to beat them." Or "you have to combine those to beat them." I think it would only take one person to go into the Tower of Ghenjei, and only one of those four things. That doesn't mean it will be only one person though. I just don't think more than one is required. I'd personally prefer it being Thom and Mat together.
You cannot rate theories without first logging in. Please
log in.
1
Tamyrlin: 2004-05-22
The problem is your definition of "required". The quote you use explicitly states that each thing does something different. Fire blinds and Iron binds. So, it isn't an issue of what is required; instead, it is an issue of what is trying to be accomplished. Are you trying to blind them or bind them? So, any person would need a variety of "items" depending on their purpose in visiting the Finns.
2
heronblade: 2004-05-22
ok, i accept that perhaps both fire and music might not be needed. either dazing or blinding MIGHT be enough to bind them so they can be forced to co-operate, but how can you say only one of the four is needed? mat had plenty of courage when he went in but he still got manipulated. or are you thinking it has to be a physical representation or an actual awareness that leads to the strengthening? plus yes she uses plural to say 'those are the ways' but she is also talking about plural combat situations both 'the snakes and the foxes'
3
Callandor: 2004-05-23
**I think it would only take one person to go into the Tower of Ghenjei, and only one of those four things.**
Or one person could go in with all four items, Thom being the front runner:
He would certainly be couragous. Aludra's "firesticks" (matches). Thom already is a talented musician. All he needs is a chunk of iron.
Volia.
Personally, I think Mat and Thom will both go through it, but not for the same purpose. Thom will go to save Moiraine, Mat to get some answers to OUR questions ;).
4
Dorindha: 2004-05-23
I just have to say, I really don't like the "formula" method of entering the Tower of Ghenjei. Why can't there be a series of coincidences that mean all the elements are there, rather than the tortuous process of finding ways of producing fire etc. Therefore, I do appreciate this theory, though I'm not sure whether just one element would work.
5
snakes-n-foxes: 2004-05-23
Now this is the thing I've always wondered when the subject of thom AND Matt going into the tower is brought up...you can only use each ter'angreal gateway once...does that disbarr you from entering the tower (probably not -though can't be sure...and it always seemed to me the restrictions were placed there for a reason...does anyone know the reason ?)
6
Anubis: 2004-05-24
because the finns dont like repeat business :P
well think about it. they get whatever they get by rummaging through a persons memories and experiances. if a person were to come through again it would be nothing new and would be very unsatisfying. also without that rule you can have people turning around for more questions as soon as they are out.
7
Jack o Shadows: 2004-05-24
Dosn't Rand force them to co-operate whe he goes through the mirror using the light from his sword?
8
heronblade: 2004-05-30
I wouldn't of thought it was simply to avoid repeated memories. it doesn't seem to match rj's normal pattern of things, but what I always found more interesting was HOW they stopped repeat visits. as far as we know the finns have no power in themselves, plus the barrier is in the gateway which is on our side so i always figured that was a human rule designed to keep people safe. part of the first agreement.
9
charliec: 2004-05-31
There's a doorway on their side too... probably the same doorway, in one of those lovely mind-bending ways...
I'd thought of the selectivity as part of the ter'angreal's power, but who initiated it I don't know. I'm inclined to suspect that it would have been the finns though- it was all a bargain, and if the same people keep coming through then they don't get anything new, but keep giving out more answers... not a very fair deal!
10
DaisharMalkier: 2004-05-31
Didn't rand have lots of courage and he had his fireblade. So it would have to be three or more. Plus, there world seemed either really fragile to having too many people or to the twistings of the tavaren. The whole complex almost fell down around there ears before thay could shove Matt and Rand out.
11
heronblade: 2004-06-02
rands 'fireblade' wasn't real fire though. it was the power. if it had been let lose it could start fires, but it was just a representation of flame and therefore not of danger.
12
Callandor: 2004-06-02
**if it had been let lose it could start fires, but it was just a representation of flame and therefore not of danger.**
It still worked on them:
**TITLE: Shadow Rising
CHAPTER: 15 - Into the Doorway
*A boot appeared, backing out of the twisted stone doorway, followed by the rest of Rand, with that fiery sword in his hands.* The blade vanished as he stepped clear, and he heaved a sigh of relief. Even in the dim light, Mat could see he was troubled, though. He gave a start when he saw Mat. "Just poking around; Mat? Or did you go through, too?" Mat eyed him warily for a moment. At least that sword was gone. He did not seem to be channeling-though how was anybody to tell?-and he did not look particularly like a mad-man. In fact, he looked very much as Mat remembered. He had to remind himself they were not back home any longer, and Rand was not what he remembered. "Oh, I went through, all right. A bunch of bloody liars, if you ask me! What are they? Made me think of snakes."
"Not liars, I think." Rand sounded as if he wished they were. "No, not that. They were afraid of me, right from the first. And when that tolling started. . . . *The sword kept them back; they wouldn't even look at it. Shied away. Hid their eyes.* Did you get your answers?"**
Fire to blind. Rand's sword was a way of cheating to them, even if it was the One Power.
13
Aiel Finn: 2005-02-03
What if the one time through the door rule is only part of the bargian. If you have noticed, I do not believe that anyone has died in finnland. I think that the bargian states that the 'finns cannot kill a visitor if they stick to the rules. This would mean that entering through the tower would require the "cheats" to survive.
14
ranman38: 2005-02-04
I have to say that the chapter that has Rand backing out of the doorway convinces me that only one is needed to "get out" without paying the fee so to speak. But, if one or two people had all four, and put the puzzle together, what may they accomplish? Rescuing Moiraine mayhaps?
15
Aiel Finn: 2005-02-04
There was no fee to use the door in Tear (other than a bunch of weird answers that give headaches). Rand was being chased out because he and Mat were beginning to tear down the universe.
