Questions touching the Shadow....."
by Anubis: 2005-01-29 | 2.2 out of 10 (5 votes)
Moirine said "Questions touching the Shadow are punished" (or something like that). Just about everyone on this site takes that to mean that the Finns hate the Dark One (forsaken, dark friends, people who cheat on their taxes, etc). I believe this to be wrong.
Moirine (and god knows shes never wrong) also said "They are not evil the way the Shadow is evil, but so different they might as well be." (or somthing like that)
In Robert Jordans world there seems to exist three... moralitys, for lack of a better word. Theres Evil. Thats the Shadow. Theres Good. Everything else almost, and then theres Wierd. The ones that dont fit. The Finns would fall under wierd. They dont seem to care weather the Shadow wins or not, they just answer questions, and grant wishes. They have their own price. They feed on memories. That is all.
Now your probably thinking, but why punish questions touching the Shadow if they arent enemys of said Shadow? Heres the theory. The Finns have the power to manipulate and read the pattern. They also exist somewhat (or perhaps entirely) outside of time. (hence the time distortion) Now when Joe Randlander goes to the Finns and asks "Where should I sell my oil?" the Finns read the threads of everyone involved and give the best answer. Then Joe Randlander does something stupid. He says "What is the Dark One planning?". Do you really expect the Finns to go and read the Dark Ones thread? I dont care who you are, or how powerfull you think you are, you dont spy on a God. Reading the Dark Ones Destiny just doesnt work. He cant have one. He exists outside of time. And he is POWERFULL. Saying his name attracts all sorts of bad things. Do you really want to go peeping?
And besides... they wear human skin. They cant be all good.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2005-02-16
(Frenzy for Tamyrlin)
Here's the quote, from tSR: The Aes Sedai winced and threw up her hands. "You three rush in blindly where Lan and a hundred Warders would tread warily. Why do you think I have not stepped through? Days ago I could have asked what Rand must do to survive and triumph, how he can defeat the Forsaken and the Dark One, how he can learn to control the Power and hold off madness long enough to do what he must." She waited, hands on hips, while it sank in. None of them spoke. "There are rules," she went on, "and dangers. No one may step through more than once. Only once. You may ask three questions, but you must ask all three and hear the answers before you may leave. Frivolous questions are punished, it seems, but it also seems what may be serious for one can be frivolous coming from another. Most importantly, questions touching the Shadow have dire consequences.
i think i'ts more likely that the Finns read the Pattern, and since the Dark One, and by extension the Shadow, are outside the Pattern, their ability to read it is impaired, or non-existant. And who wants to admit a flaw?
2
Ozymandias: 2005-02-16
I think your theory about how there are three "moralities" is a good one, but much too broad. There is the Shadow, and then the Light, but weird is too vague. The Finns basically exist in an alternate universe, so I dont think they can be classified as part of Randland. Same thing goes for Padan Fain. He's evil, but not in the sense of the DO. I like to think of the Finn's as the amalgamation of the evil excessive curiosity can cause (since they answer all questions, at a price) and Fain as the sum of human hatred and mistrust.
3
Yaga Shura: 2005-02-17
I don't agree with the idea of the Finns not liking questions on the Shadow because they can't read the DO's thread. I think you're right, it wouldn't work, but that doesn't stop them reading the threads of regular Darkfriends or even the Forsaken. Personally, I think that when they read the Pattern it is possible for someone, say the DO, to know that they have read it. They are trying to steer clear of the entire situation by avoiding anything that might incur the DO's wrath.
4
Kafaro: 2005-02-17
OK, I like those Ideas, but at the same time, I have an idea that somewhat concerns this thread and somewhat doesnt. I have just finished reading Lord of Thje Flies for school, and it got me thinking of Padan Fain...what if he is like Jack, basically used as a symbol of the faults of human nature...I'm not saying that that is what Padan Fain is for, that is obviously not it...but still...sybolism...hahaha, ok, and now, for the Finns...it seems to me, and probably to everyone else too, that there are two types of Finns...one, is less weird then the other...and by that, i mean, they don't kill people for asking questions, but they are both an heir to evil, if not evil in the way like Shai'tan...
5
mako0424: 2005-02-17
An interesting point, and not much to say besides ask a semi-intriguing question.
RJ is all about balance, and the Finns are of neither morality, or Good and Evil, so if questions regarding the Shadow have dire consequences, why would the same not be true for questions regarding the Light?
doesn't make sense, at least in my opinion.
6
Aiel Finn: 2005-02-18
Could it be that questions touching the shadow would only have dire concequences for those not sworn to the shadow. It may be a sort of calling the DO's attention. For Rand, Mat, and Morianne, these questions would be bad, but for Lanfear/Merin or a DF, these questions would be fine.
7
terez: 2005-02-19
That quote was from Birgitte, which makes it even more credible than if it were from Moiraine, because it was given while Birgitte was living in TAR, and she still had access to her knowledge of past lives, probably the reason for the "prescripts" that forbade her from talking to Dreamers.
"Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to daze, iron to bind . . . those are the ways to win against the snakes and the foxes. The game is a remembrance of old dealings. It does not matter so long as you stay away from the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn. They are not evil the way the Shadow is evil, yet they are so different from humankind they might as well be. They are not to be trusted, archer. Stay clear of the Tower of Ghenjei."
As to the question of the questions touching the Shadow, I think Aiel Finn has a good point, although Moiraine did not make that distinction for questions touching the Shadow. The Light knows that Moiraine did not know everything, and the frivolity discretion factor does seem to point to something like that.
8
Jammer: 2005-02-19
I believe there has been a metioning of the Finns reading the pattern when they answer questions and geive the wishes, that is how they can tell you what will happen in the future.
Questions concerning the shadow might actually force them to read shadowy parts of the pattern. We know there's bubbles of evil around since the DO seals are breaking, but maybe they always get some sort of bubble whenever they read the pattern, seeing as how they are actively seeving through it.
9
Caramoor: 2005-03-04
I don't think the questions are what will have dire consequences, but rather the answers to those questions. The Shadow operates outside of the normal flow of time, which forms the pattern the Finns read to answer questions. Since the shadow usually works contrary to the designs of the pattern (the dark one does want to destroy time) the Finns will answer any question brought to them, but it may not be the best solution. And the result of acting on their information may have dire consequences.
