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ourage to cheat

by a dragonburned fool: 2005-04-20 | 6.11 out of 10 (18 votes)

Previous Categories: The World of the Finns

This is not the next attempt to speculate how Moiraine will be rescued. It is an attempt to understand more about the rules of entering the Ghenjei Tower in general.

TsR Chapter 28: Tower of Ghenjei:

***"All children do. At least, they do in the Two Rivers. But they give it up when they get old enough to realize there's no way to win."

"Except to break the rules," she said. " 'Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to daze, iron to bind.' "

"That's a line from the game. I don't understand. What does it have to do with this tower?"

"Those are the ways to win against the snakes and the foxes. The game is a remembrance of old dealings. It does not matter so long as you stay away from the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn. They are not evil the way the Shadow is evil, yet they are so different from humankind they might as well be. They are not to be trusted, archer. Stay clear of the Tower of Ghenjei. Avoid the World of Dreams, if you can. Dark things walk."***

First I'd want to make it clear, that entering Ghenjei will be NOT like entering the redstone ter'angreal. There would be no *finns waiting for you at the entrance and asking you about the forbidden things and guiding you to a place to get answers or wishes. Why not? Because there is a children game snake-and-foxes and it's rules are not like the experience at the redstone door ter'angreals. In the game the snakes and foxes are hunting the players and if the *finns catch the player, the player loses. The player's goal seems to be to go through the area WITHOUT meeting any *finns. The books are very explicit, that the game cannot be won without cheating. To lose the game meant to be ctched by a *finn, so the cheating is instrumental to avoid the meeting with these creatures.

This means that a human can take the most obvious iron and musical instruments in Ghenjei and to bear a burning torch - until the *finns don't catch him, everything is well. And if he doesn't bring anything of the above, *finns will catch him and he will lose and become a fancy garment for some eelfinn. Fire, music, iron and courage are means to cheat, but there are no visible reasons to hide them as it is usual for "cheating".

And the situation becomes much more complicite if we take into account that *Finns are creatures who can see past and future as if it is present. "Cheating" would have a ... different meaning when you are playing against such creatures. It will be not like in normal play, when you can hide your intentions and take hiden forbidden means in the decisive moment - the opponents would know from before that you will use your hidden trick. It will be very hard to lie to the finns what you will do in the next moment against them. Cheating and breaking the rules must mean something else. "To blind", "to dazzle", "to bind" - al that seems to imply violent means to damage finns ability to operate freely with your time. This free operation with the timing of your thread seem to be part of the "rules" of Finnland, and to break these rules means rather to cause a little natural disaster (no matter if predictable by finns or not) in this realm.

Something like that we do see when Rand uses his fiery swords against the Aelfinns in Tear. They wanted to get him, but he threatened them with the sword, and they closed their eyes and keeped in distance. And this gave Rand a good opportunity to walk aout with dignity and without any harm. He used explicite fire and it was undoubtedly a cheat. It made no problems for him to get his answers. He cheated and was not punished for it even if the aelfinns were there and completely aware of the cheating. What Rand did to them was to limit their freedom to move and catch him. It is obvious why they regard it as cheating - it hurts them, it puts limits on them, it makes them helpless, they would definitely not agree with it. But they can also not do anyhting against it.

I can easily imagine how using fire or music or iron can be called "cheating" because it (blinding, dazzling, binding) apparently affects the finns in an unpleasant way and the game becomes not fair. It is some rude kind of elimination of the opponents. But why is courage considered to be "cheating" in Finnland? How could having courage be a cheating? Apparently the rules of Finnland do not accept "courage". What kind of rules could that be?

What is a "courage"? It comes into the play when the circumstances are against the person's will, but the person challenges them. When the circumstances are forcing the person to act in manner the person wants not, but the courageous person will not surrender to the circumstances and will nevertheless try his/her way to react. Circumstances.... what is the fate if not a generalized function of all the circumstancial trends for the future. When it is said, that it's your fate to do so, it means that circumstances will force you to do so. So courage is some kind of challenging one's fate.

Fate... both aelfinns and eelfinns are tightly connected to fate. Aelfinns can read the fate of persons, eelfinns can rewrite it in some extent. Both take the fate (=thread) of the person with the past and future as something whole before their eyes. This fate is the total description of everything this person has done in Finnland and that he will do else. The task of the finns in the snakes-and-foxes game is to catch the player. So if a finn sees the player, the finn will know the next steps of the player. If the finn knows your next steps, they will know well how to catch you later. You have no chance. Unless yo blind or dazzle or bind them, so they cannot use their advantage. Or unless you use your courage.



*Finns learn your next steps from your fate. And your fate is not you but your circumstances. If you are courageous you can eventually challenge the circumstances and maybe change the fate. Simple luck or ignorance or stubbornness or stupidity or madness will not help here, because they are based on inner circumstances, so they are also part of yout fate. But courage is a trait of will, not of the pure thread, and it can face the circumstances. With some courage you can change in some extent your fate. So *finns read from your fate that you will do so and so, but you do it in another way. They go and wait you in point A, but you go to point B instead and escape them. Would the *finns think that this is cheating? Of course!

And... "courage" is not so simple thing, if you have to do with creatures who can read your future. How could such creature understand the concept of "courage"? What will mean "risk" for them - they know exactly what will happen - where is the place of risk there? From a finn's point of view you are either doing the sure right thing and are wise, or you are doing a lost thing and you are ignorant; you are either oing to sure victory and there is no matter if you are courageous or not, or you are going to sure defeat, and here it is also no matter if you are courageous or not. For finns "courage" must be absurd.

So both courage and cheating are absurd things in Finnland. Well, absurd things sometimes really happen. When absurd things happen they disturb the normal flow of events, and that means an anomaly, it means stupid, insane events. Finns would most likely apprehend the courage, fire, music and iron in this manner - as crazy chaotic events. Most likely Finns usually cannot recognize the forbidden things unless they will be not used. So the aelfinn in Tear doesn't recognize the plenty of iron Mat wears (or maybe the aelfinn just sees that Mat will not use any iron during his time in Aelfinnland - Mat hasn't used any iron actually). Courage will be not understandable by finns, so it can fit in this category, and possibly can be used as tool.

Maybe that is the reason *finns do not ask visitors whether they bring courage in the door ter'angreal. They can just not understand what courage is. Or they could just not ask it because it is pointless - the visitor will be either courageous or not and there is nothing to change about it and nothing to negotiate. In all cases courage is a kind of a natural disaster for the *finns exactly like fire, music and iron are. The rhyme mentions four things that can make you win against the Finns and all they are considered to be breaking the rules. Courage could be mentioned in some different sense having rather rhetorical, but not informative function. But that would mean that the rhyme has too complicite structure. The composition of the rhyme is such that it leaves the impression of listing four things of equal importance and of the same category.
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2005-04-21

First, I don't know that you can claim, definitively, that every Finn can read futures, and grant wishes. The individual is brought to a special room, ceremoniously, and as far as I remember, the ones on the pedastals look different...but I can't be sure. Either way, like some humans can channel, some Finns may be able to read. Second, Birgitte mentions he should stay clear because the Finns can't be trusted. In other words, it would appear that you run into Finns before they kill you; there may be Finns waiting on the other side, to explain the game, or some means by which you know what to do when you enter. Third, I think you know I don't agree with this interpretation of Courage, I think it is figurative, have courage, it will strengthen you. I wish Jordan would give us some additional insight into the Finns.

2

a dragonburned fool: 2005-04-22

responses to Tam;

to 1. It is not needed for every *finn to be able to read futures. It is enough if there are *finns with such abilities in the number of those who have to do with the visitor. The aelfinns who read the futures and the eelfinns who grant wishes (and who for that purpose also must know the future, because they don't change the Randworld, but only give to the visitor everything necessaqry for the future circumstances, i.e. they have to know these future circumstances) definitely are engaged in the dealing with human intruders, so the *finns party will have future-knowers in their numbers, i.e. the *finns as party will have the knowlegde. Another problem would it be if future could be seen by *finns only in the special room. However both aelfinns and eelfins seem to react very in time when Mat and other visitors come and the guide comes just in time (and it takes a lot of time to walk through Finnland, and the important persons appear just in time into the final room - all that leads me to think that they can trace the future appearance of a visitor and to prepare to it.

We don't know whether all *finns can read future or only some Talented ones among them. The first option has no support for it, but it is not improbable, because *finnland as whole has very strange laws of time-flow, that definitely means that no *finns will have the our normal understanding of time-flow and of future-related concepts. The concept of Courage depends of the concept of Risk, and the concept of Risk depends of the concept of unknown future. If the future ppearance is different, it will change the conditions of risk-concept and thus of Courage.

to 2. I failed to notice that, and it is important thing. If *finns are not to be trusted, then it is supposed that there would be some communication with them. It may mean that they will come and meet the visitor on entrance and explain him the rules of the game. In this case they will also forbid the means of cheating. Without cheating the players has absolutely no chance to win - both Birgitte and the children game are explicit about that. If a player will need to put his fire, music and light away, then only courage will left to him to reach the game's end. There are many visitors who came in and returned - including the heroes who's deeds were the base for the children game and a great heap of the owners of Mat's memories. So either all they mastered to come in the game with the forbidden things and this is difficult if *finns meet you before the game and if they have to grant you something after the game, or they all used Courage to cheat.

Saying that *Finns are not to be trusted may mean also that they will not immediately kill you if they approach you, but they will communicate with you. One thing we know they want from humans, are their memories, and they gain them apparently while the human is alive. Also if they meat you and you have cheating intems, they would want to persuade you to not use the se items and to lose.

to 3. I don't knew, you were against my interpretation of Courage, but there were too many people who disagreed with me on this point, so I could easily forget it. :) However the rhyme lists the four items as equal, and if Courage is only figurative, it will mean that the verse has factually a quite complicite composition. Birgitte quotes the rhyme and stresses it and she explains it that these are the only ways to beat the *finns and that *finns can be beaten onkly by cheating. To mention Courage together with three means of cheating seems to me to be a little bit pointless. You don't need courage for to cheat if you will have sure loss elsewhere. Needing courage for to cheat here sounds for me like needing courage to fly wisely away instead of fighting a sure-death last-stand battle. Why do you need courage to burn a light for to blind an coming *finn, if the panic would motivate you in excellent way for the same thing?

3

SDog: 2005-04-22

I agree that it is incorrect to assume that all the *Finns can read or change the future. If this were the case, why bring the visitor to the magic room with the people on pedestals? Why not just have the Greeter do the work? Moreover, there is no reason to assume that the Ael'finn and Eel'finn can all do the same things. I doubt Eel'finn can read the future, for example. I have another point to make here, but I'll save it for a bit.

Regarding courage, I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say, DBF. Are you suggesting, because your cheating will be known by the *Finns, even the idea of cheating takes courage? And that, since they will know your next move, courage to challenge them is anathema? It seems a little abstract and far-fetched. How would you know to use courage against them? How is it practically possible? As you noted, one either has the courage, or one doesn't. It's not as if declaring, "I have courage" is going to make the *Finns shy away from you. (Or maybe it will...?)

Back to my other point. Let's assume for a moment that the Greeter does not have the power to read/change your fate. I suggest that the Red Door ter'angreal provided a way for the average person to utilize the "prize" of winning the game, through the bargain made. That is, the Greeter guides the visitor through the web-like maze that is Finnland, to the center. In the center reside the fate readers/makers.

It is possible that entering through the Tower allows one access to the center, but you have to fight your way in. You need to bring the items in the rhyme to either fight off the Greeter/Guards, or to force the people in the center to read/change your fate. Perhaps it is both.

It's just a thought, and probably one better suited for the MBs.

Overall, I agree with Tam that "courage" is probably more metaphorical. You need courage in order to even try to cheat by using those items. Perhaps it is even the case that the Greeter/Guard people are not dazzled or capable of being bound. You have to have the courage to get past them before you can use your tools on the others.

4

alivia: 2005-04-23

"Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to dazzle, iron to bind."

The 'finns are rather scary charcters to deal with. They 'rustle around in ones' mind', read ones' thread. I belive (maybe I read this in the books or in a theory) that the 'finns live off of human emotion and memory.

That the elfins live most off of human fear (the eels' startlement at Matts sarcasm instead of fear when he enters tgheir doorway). Having "courage" - aka no fear - may be another way to distract them, by denying them the ability to read your thread?

Its an idea less tangible, as 'courage' itself is, but allows it the same weight as music, fire, & iron.

5

alexander: 2005-04-24

just a thought the part iron to bind is from shakespeare the creatures on the land of avalon were bound by iron

6

Aiel Finn: 2005-04-25

I wouldn't be suprised if the iron burns the *finns. They are clearly the most "magical" creatures in the series and RJ is using enough of the standard motifs that they should have real problems with Iron (e.g. old world faries)

7

Stilicho: 2005-04-25

Actually, Alivia, that's a great idea. If the Eelfinn do derive strength/sustenance/kicks/whatever from 'feeding' off of fears, then courage help anyone facing them by depriving them of a source of strength/vigor. Kinda like hitting Superman with Kryptonite, but probably not quite so drastic.

8

Oye: 2005-04-25

If the Finns can see what you'll do because it is determined from your fate, it will help a lot in dealing with them if you're Ta'veren, shaping the pattern around you and all. Then they probably wouldn't be able to see what you'll do, because you more or less determine your own fate.

9

haertchen: 2005-04-25

Oye:

Or possibly, being Taveren makes your fate stick out much more clearly because so many other threads depend on it.

10

Aiel Finn: 2005-04-26

Even if fear isn't what they feed upon, they seem to like it because is weakens their victims, makes them easier to manipulate. They really didn't like Mat's lack of fear when he went through in Rhundien.

11

Yaga Shura: 2005-04-27

"If the Finns can see what you'll do because it is determined from your fate, it will help a lot in dealing with them if you're Ta'veren, shaping the pattern around you and all. Then they probably wouldn't be able to see what you'll do, because you more or less determine your own fate. "

Ta'veren are bound more tightly by the wheel than ordinary people. If this was not the case, what would be the point in the Wheel spinning out ta'veren to make corrections?

12

a dragonburned fool: 2005-04-29

SDog wrote: ***"Regarding courage, I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say, DBF. Are you suggesting, because your cheating will be known by the *Finns, even the idea of cheating takes courage? And that, since they will know your next move, courage to challenge them is anathema? It seems a little abstract and far-fetched. How would you know to use courage against them? How is it practically possible? As you noted, one either has the courage, or one doesn't. It's not as if declaring, "I have courage" is going to make the *Finns shy away from you"***

To the first question: no - because *finns will know how will you cheat, the "cheating" must be something that will work despite of them knowing it. Courage will be making your future route less dependent of circumstances and so less usable for *finns (because I'm stating that *finns utilize especially the effect of circumstances on your future). Courage to challenge them is not anathema, because dealing with *finns without cheating is bad enough for you and because *finns haven't shown any extreme reactions against challenging them. Having courage you will just give less usable details for them and so you will make yourself a target not so easy to be tracked as a coward. They will know your future also with courage, but ... they will know a little bit less, because with the courage it is you who decides your next steps, not the circumstances. So they cannot use their knowledge about the circumstances so effectively as against a coward, who lets the circumstances determine his actions. How one can use his courage against them? By simply decide his actions himself letting not the circumstances decide instead if him himself. This will make the information they get about you a little bit less detailed. It could be looser than a coward's future in a very little degree, but little uncertainties could change the outcome. Being courageous you are excluding many factors the knowledge about which are used by the *finns against you. So you are not choosing to use your courage or not: you are either courageous or not, but if you are courageous, then you are more less convenient for *finns to approach you, you are more ... chaotic for their eyes, more slippery in a sense.

SDOg wrote: ***I agree that it is incorrect to assume that all the *Finns can read or change the future. If this were the case, why bring the visitor to the magic room with the people on pedestals? Why not just have the Greeter do the work? Moreover, there is no reason to assume that the Ael'finn and Eel'finn can all do the same things***

The similarity of the hall with the pedestales to a throneroom made me to think that the *finns on the pedestals are special in the way the kings are special. Everybody can command around sitting on an ornamented chair, but kings can do it legally. Those on the pedestals are apparently those who can do the request answering, and the throneroom similarity makes me to think that they are those who can do it legally. They do it because they have the right (or duty) to do it.

As about the difference in the abilities between Aelfinn and Eelfinn, I envision it rather as different styles or different approaches, something similar to the difference between male and female channeling. The duality of *Finnland means for me that it also must fit in the general dualistic metaphysics of pairs of opposites thatboth attract and reject each other and they are basically the same but in different way and by different approach and with different style. The opposites of saidin and saidar have their corresponding pair of opposites in the Taint and Mashadar, i.e. pairs of opposites do correspond between each other even if they are of completely different nature. So maybe OP and the two halves of Finnland also do have some correspondence (without to need any direct relation between them). Even a correspondence to the particular halves of OP can be found - Aelfinns world with their delicate curves can be similar to saidar approach, and Eelfinns world with their straightforward ways and solutions can be similar to the saidin approach. Like saidar and saidin weaves that are different in technique and detail but basically the same in effect, I envision also the both types of Finns having opposite techniques and styles but doing basically the same thing. Aelfinns search among already existing future possibilities and pick up the best possibility for you (and so they give you an advice - btw they are not just fortune-tellers, they give you advices about solutions of very difficult problems, so their gifts are not so fundamentally different from the Eelfinn gifts) while Eelfinns apply more radical solutions by giving you additional details. Aelfinns are more delicate and sensible in their solutions than Eelfinns, but basically they both actually give solutions for your future.

SDog wrote: ***It is possible that entering through the Tower allows one access to the center, but you have to fight your way in. You need to bring the items in the rhyme to either fight off the Greeter/Guards, or to force the people in the center to read/change your fate. Perhaps it is both.***

Yes, perhaps both. But AT LEAST it's to be used on those who persecute you in the maze. We don't know what you have to do when you get to the central place after the moving through the maze, but in the game you never get to the central place without breaking the rules. You cannot do it because *finns allways catch you in the way and you don't get to your goal and you lose. The obvious unsolvable problem is the moving to the center. Therefore the cheating has to be applied there at least.

And about Alivia's idea that *finns are living from human emotion and beating your fears you deny them some ressource they get from you - it's possible. We have no evidence that they live off of human emotions IIRC - they are known only to be hungry about memories. We have no indication of *finns attempting to scare the visitor. This may be due to the fact that we have seen them only in the reddoor cases when the communication was regulated by that infamous "ancient agreement" i.e. means of direct applying of pressure on the other side are limited. But we just don't know now.

But another idea comes to me. In the maze you are moving through an environement changing under unknown rules (that the natives apparently know unlike you). I.e. you are moving into places you don't know what you find in the next moment and you move without a possibility to turn back (the way back dissapears in Mat's trip in Eelfinnland). This behavior of the environement is scary and the visitor may need courage to move resolutely forward without knowing what is there and knowing that there is no way back. Hesitating may give to the *finns better opportunities to react and catch you. I'm still liking my first ide, but this one seems to be very simple and fitting all the criteria...

About the ta'veren - I think it will rather help against them. Ta'verens are more controlled by the Wheel than ordinary people in some aspects, but Finns are not the Wheel. Finns read the Pattern, but ta'verens re-arrange the Pattern itself. The Wheel controls how the ta'veren re-arranges the Pattern, but Finns are not the Wheel. Finns are also under the control of the Wheel like other dimensions. Also ta'verens are dependend of the another threads knotting themselves around, but in Finnland the ta'veren will be a lone thread amongst threads with different direction.

13

Frenzy: 2005-04-29

This is pertinent:

Lord of Chaos CHAPTER: 33 - Courage to Strengthen:

Leaning on his elbow, Mat examined the game of Snakes and Foxes laid out on the tent floor. Occasionally a drop of sweat fell from his chin, just missing the board. It was not a board at all, really, just a piece of red cloth with the web of lines drawn in black ink, and arrows showing which lines allowed movement only one way and which both. Ten pale wooden discs each with an inked triangle were the foxes, ten with a wavy line the snakes. Two lamps set to either side gave more than enough light. "We will win this time, Mat," Olver said excitedly. "I know we will."

"Maybe," Mat said. Their two black-stained discs were nearly back to the circle in the middle of the board, but the next roll of the dice would be for the snakes and foxes. Most of the time you did not make it as far as the outer edge. "Roll the dice." He never touched the dice cup himself, not since the day he had given it to the boy; if they were going to play the game, it might as well be without his luck taking a hand.

The Tower of Ghenjei puts you into the web of lines, only you don't know which way you can go, and the only way to get to where you need to go is to cheat. The Redstone Doorways, however, circumvent your need to "fight" your way through the game to get to your goal. An agreement was made between their makers and the *'finns, bypassing the normal rules of the game.

The line about Mat not touching the dice cup is interesting, though. The game is no-win, but Mat gives Olver a chance to win by not having his luck interfere. Perhaps by some oddball chance Mat finds himself having to play the real game, his luck will be the deciding "cheating" factor.

14

lurk: 2005-05-04

Regarding courage. I wouldn't be surprised if the inside of the tower of ghenjei is a giant maze with a lot of traps and pitfalls. Kinda like what indiana jones always finds on his expeditions. I remember the last crusade where he needed to walk a gorge that turned out to be an invisible bridge. Courage of the lion was the phrase in the poem (I think) he had as a guide to the holy grail. Something similar might be the case here.

Courage to strengthen, maybe you have to swing from a rope that seems to weak or something

Anyway that is what I think is meant by courage to strengthen

15

Paddy: 2005-11-23

Well the game is obviously an alusion to earlier dealings with the Finns.

Maybe in the attempt to rescue Moraine, they realise the only way is to cheat the Finns like in the game as you said.

So they go in armed with fire, music, iron, and courage.

The courage hurts them theory is quite good, and thats always seemed a puzzle to me why it would be useful.

I think Mat will go in and cheat to get Moraine, but also to force a new bargain on them.

16

Kuma: 2005-11-25

Just a quick thought about whether or not all of the 'finn can Read people's threads: Don't the Greeters confirm that the entrants from the Redstone Doorways have none of the forbidden items? Wouldn't that imply that at least the Greeters aren't Reading?

17

The Philosopher: 2006-01-02

Personally, I think that the interaction between the worlds, Randland and Finnland, esspecially the actions and natures of the Finns supposes some sort of gain for themselves. Think Warder and AS- the Warders gain such and such abilities, not to mention the protections against the Shadow the being near to an AS bestows, but what the AS gain isn't ever gone into really. I think me that this is very similar to the Finns and Randland- they must gain something, or the "ancient agreement" would have had no purpose.

This, compounded with the hungery mental rummaging, suggests to me that they do indeed feed of of memories, emotions and thoughts. After they "restore" Mat's memories of past lives, he notices holes, like ommitions or digestion.

To bring this to a useful point, I don't know that courage is cheating. While it is mentioned with the methods of "cheating", I do see it as a method of firming one's resolve with the Finns and to strengthen oneself for the confrontation with them. As the other components, fire and music and iron, each have basis with the Fair Folk of legend, obviously courage must as well. Yet inmost of the old tales reguarding the Fair Folk, it has been acts of great courage that "defeated" them, or taken great courage to interact with them. So- while I can see that courage can help to defeat a Finn, as fire and iron and music, even going to meet with the Finns requires great courage, and therefore is not excluded as the others are from the presence of the Finns.

Not to mention the fact that you can hardly exclude a quality of spirit or the mind from your presence.

18

lurk: 2006-01-06

With regard to courage and fear. (spoilers)

Courage does not mean you do not have fear, but it means you are able to NOT let it influence your action.

Fades induce fear and only the people that are able to face the fear and not be influenced by it can face them in combat. That is courage.

The finns can read your future (well some of them anyway) but the future is not fixed it can shift. In mathematical terms ther eare several number of futures with each a certain chance of happening. I think the finns give you the most probable one with some clues to make the chance of this future happening even greater.

What if it takes courage to go to a future with a very low probability of success (Moiraine letter hints at these different outcomes) this would make it harder for the finns to predict your actions within the tower and give you an advantage.

But how this fits with courage to STRENGTHEN is still fuzzy for me