1
Tamyrlin: 2003-01-21
The idea that the Finns have access to viewing Mirror Worlds is interesting...although, the location of the Finns is still in doubt I believe. As far as I remember, the Finns have a world of their own in the real universe that is being traveled to through the use of the ter'angreal. In other words, they themselves would have a "reflection" in the Mirror Worlds. But I would agree that the deal of three is mere convention, but they are shrewd and set a limit and obviously a high price.
2
Callandor: 2003-02-28
I'm not sure. It seems like the Finn have almost there own world inside of the TAR. Main thing that makes me think this is:
1. Shape of their world- In the Tear doorway there is a world of pure curves and no straight lines; a circle (if you want to be possitive that there are curves in the Tear doorway world, the sides of the doorway itself is ingraved with wavey/curvey lines). In the Rhuidean doorway there is a world of pure polygons, most common being an 8-pointed star; spokes of a tire if you will (on the Rhuidean doorway there are inverted triangles ingraved on the sides). Now right there, it seems like there is something very weird with the place, and I know no other place that can be made weirder then TAR.
(Interesting sidenote is if you take the Rhuidean doorway world, the spokes, and lay the Tear doorway world around it, the circle or wheel, you get a tire. And a tire needs a joint to attach to joining both worlds and that could be the Tower of Genjei. Plus if you put these two together you get the playing board for Snakes and Foxes: Olvers favorite game.)
2. The Way Time Flows- When Mat, Rand, and Moiraine all go into the Tear doorway, they seem to spend a relativly short amount of time in there, roughly regular time flow as in the normal world. But when Mat goes into the Rhuidean doorway, days go by while he is in there. If the same is true for spending long time INSIDE one of the doorways and a short amount of time elapses in the real world, then it seems to be a classic example of the flow of time in TAR.
Just makes more sense to me for the Finns to live in TAR.
3
juitzhead: 2003-04-16
Does anyone know the restrictions the Finns have on wishes? Say you wish for 1 billion gizillion Tar Valon gold marks. Will they grant this? Or perhaps to bring someone back from the dead?
4
anderwarrick: 2003-06-10
I think it says that the Finns weren't focusing on Mat, but above his head. Could some one look up that quote for me, because i dont have the book right now, and i cant use the search thing.
5
Arbryan: 2004-03-26
I think 3 is used because that is the number of wishes a genie will grant. It's familiar and it is not too many that someone should be frivilous.
Yes I think they would give the person the million gizillion TV marks, but they would probably either bury the person killing them, or be at their feet leaving the foolhardy person with no way to get them back home to spend. (without using another wish).
Yes they looked over Mat's head (very similar to where Min looks). Its odd that there were 3, I'm not sure if they use some sort of mental link to actually understand more than Min does or if they are just more seasoned.
6
snakes-n-foxes: 2004-03-27
If I recall right, it was implied in one of the books that the limit of three wishes and three true answers was set in a bargain the finns made with Aes Sedai during the AoL - when Mat steps through the ter'angreal in Rhuidian the finns say "Speak. By the ancient treaty here is agreement made. What is your need. Speak"
7
brother of Battles: 2004-04-08
***Callandor, I just want to know where it says that Mat was in the second doorway for days?*****
Also, about the Three wishs and the the answers, they were part of a bargain that was made. The same bargain that doesn't allow anyone to bring with them Fire, Music, or Iron. However, if I am not mistaken, the Bargain was made before the AoL, same as the portal stones.
8
Unicorn: 2004-04-08
***Callandor, I just want to know where it says that Mat was in the second doorway for days?*****
I know I'm not Callandor, but it doesn't say directly, but Mat and Rand were in Rhuidean several days, and I don't think you suggest that Mat just hung there for several days. He was not overly hungry or thirsty(well thirsty, but nou dehydrated), I think it's safe to say he was in there almost as long as Rand was in the glass forrest.
But more on Callandors post, I find not only the comparison to the gameboeard interesting, It is a further confirmation to Birgittes statement that the game origins with the dealings between men and finn. But it seems to me that there is more to the layout than this - what if Callandor had names the shape differently say as a WHEEL. The layout described is damn close to the wheel and snake gizmo-thing depicted throughout the books - only that wheel only has seven spokes, but that could be the artist, ofcourse the seven could also be tied into the seven ajahs, also I have seen it stated that there is seven ages, but I don't know why it couldn't be eight.
As to the finns ability to grant wishes and answers. I believe that the snakes a really good at reading the pattern, sort of like the Nornes of Norse mythology. Whereas the foxes, I belive cannot grant anything they do not have. Jordan has told us that(latest in the question of the week) Mat's memories are from persons who has pasedthrough the doorway, perhaps"donating" their memories as the price given. It has been brought forward sometime tha mats medallion is an artifact of the Ago of legends. So I basically believe that they barter for stuff, but I think they set value very different from us(randlanders). This also makes me believe that asking for a gazillion Tar Valon marks would not nessecarily leave you dead or crippled, as the Finn's would not nessecarily think this to be a "valuable" thing to wish for - ofcourse if they get a whiff what you would be willing to give for this they would wring every single scrap of it out of you
9
Callandor: 2004-04-08
**Callandor, I just want to know where it says that Mat was in the second doorway for days?**
Don't know who originally asked this but Rand and Mat both went into Rhuidean at the same time. Rand went into the glass rods to see his Aiel history, and a little bit later (few minutes) Mat went into the ter'angreal. Rand emerged to find Mat hanging from the Tree of Life long enough for him to be almost dead (no, he did not die there), and they both returned to the Aiel hearing that seven days have passed. With Mat spending no time anywhere else, he had to have spent that seven days inside the ter'anagreal in Finnland.
10
Oatman: 2004-04-10
OR Matt was simply hanging from the tree for seven days. This is the tree of Life were talkin about, who nos what powers it may have. Isnt their a story about a guy spendin many more years than humanly possible under the tree gaining wisdom? Maybe the tree has powers of preservation.
11
Callandor: 2004-04-10
**OR Matt was simply hanging from the tree for seven days...Maybe the tree has powers of preservation.**
Stories. The tree has "powers" of contentment (something from how they are made no doubt), but to keep someone alive from a hanging for SEVEN days, is impossible. Plus, Mat did not die there.
12
Oatman: 2004-04-11
I never said he died, i agree with u that he didnt, unless Rand managed to find the weave to cure death, but im just sayin theirs really is no way of saying how long he was hanging there. If he had just been hung, he would have been thrashing around a bit. The only way to really no is to figure out how he got thier, but thats somthin i think we're gonna have to wait for RJ to tell us
13
Callandor: 2004-04-11
**I never said he died, i agree with u that he didnt, unless Rand managed to find the weave to cure death, but im just sayin theirs really is no way of saying how long he was hanging there.**
**TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 24 - Rhuidean
"We will set the price." They spoke so quickly he could not tell which said what. "What was asked will be given." "The price will be paid." "Burn you," he shouted, "what are you talking about?" Utter darkness dosed around him. *There was something around his throat.* He could not breathe air. He could not. . . .**
**TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 26 - The Dedicated
Suddenly something caught his eye, low in the branches of the Tree of Life. *A shape swinging slowly.* A man, hanging from a pole laid across two branches by a rope around his neck.**
Let's see... They had just put "something" around his neck, and when Rand sees him, he is still moving slowly. What else is needed?
14
rollthedice: 2004-04-12
Mat says later in several books that he already died once...as was predicted at one point...I do not remember who predicted it or in what book but I know it was said that he would die in order to live or something along those lines.
15
rollthedice: 2004-04-12
Never mind...I think that was Rand
16
brother of Battles: 2004-04-28
"Suddenly something caught his eye, low in the branches of the Tree of Life. *A man, hanging from a pole laid across two branches by a rope around his neck."
TSR: Chapter 26-The Dedicated
Of course this is where Mat died at people. Mat was told stright out that he would DIE and live again. When Rand took Mat and all the Aiel with him to battle Rahvin doesn't count as Mat dieing either because of the amount of balefire used made that thread of the wheel no longer there. It doesn't say he would almost die then stay living. Mat went into the Finnland Ter'Angreal moments after Rand went into the glass Ter'Angreal. Then He lost his temper, made a bargain without knowing it, and lost his life for doing so. The Snakes or Foxes (which ever one it was) kept thier end of the bargain but the price they took was Mat's life. But since both him and Rand are Ta'veren, and in such close distances to each other, chance twisted and Mat was hung under the TREE OF LIFE. However, I am not saying that it sustained him for all those days, but it did keep something active in so that the heart no longer pumped, but was able to be resurected by Rand when he gave him CPR. Maybe it helped that Rand never moved him away from the tree when he gave Mat CPR. And as for Rand suddenly seeing Mat swinging slowly from the tree. You would suddenly see anything out of the ordinary like that, and any kind of breeze would make someone hung swing like that.
17
Anubis: 2004-04-28
the question really is: how long was matt hanging?
it could have been anywhere between a week and a few minutes. dont get me started on the whole time works differently in alternate worlds rave again.
18
TheNetweaver: 2004-04-28
I'm sorry, but saying that Mat "died and lived again" in Rhuidean is just dead wrong. Yes, Rahvin's thread was burned out of the pattern, but that doesn't mean that Mat didn't still die live again. People witnessed him getting hit by lightning and remember it; it did happen. By the way, doesn't RJ say in an interview that Mat didn't die in Rhuidean? Maybe my memory is faulty.
19
Flinn Sedai: 2004-04-28
All of you are looking in the wrong part of their visit for when time passed quickly. When they first saw the Chora Tree, they sat under it and felt great contentment. Ever thought thats where the 7 days went
20
dragonsceptor: 2004-04-28
Netweaver, if your memory is fautly, so is mine because I remember the same thing.
21
Callandor: 2004-04-28
**Of course this is where Mat died at people.**
Dead, dead, DEAD, wrong.
Once and for all people, Mat did not die in Rhuidean. He ALMOST died.
He died in Caemlyn, and was brought back by the balefiring of Rahvin.
My assurance? Robert Jordan said so, himself.
WOT FAQ:
**Bill Garrett's report of RJ's appearance at Balticon 30 (April 1996) mentions: "Jordan noted that Mat's death by lightning and subsequent undoing of his death when Rand balefired Rahvin, fulfills the prophecy about living, dying, and then living again." Tim Kington reports that, when asked how long Mat had hung from the Tree of Life in Rhuidean, RJ replied, "Long enough to be ALMOST dead" (emphasis mine) [post-COT signing, Dayton, OH, January 16, 2004].**
22
Brendan Reborn: 2004-04-29
Is it just me, or is RJ like an Aes Sedai in our times....His interviews are always full of truthful sentences that dodge the questions asked, or what he says is an impartial answer, like "long enough to be almost dead"
23
1337ist Gary: 2005-02-13
Mat didnt die and live again as a result of the balefire by rahvin, because of Rands balefire rahvins balefire never occured, therefore mat didnt die there.
i remember somewhere in the books where moraine explains balefire to rand she states that what is erased because of balefire actually never happened in that sense (sorry for the bad quote, i have ust wasted 20 minutes trying to find the page in the book.
24
Callandor: 2005-02-13
**Mat didnt die and live again as a result of the balefire by rahvin, because of Rands balefire rahvins balefire never occured, therefore mat didnt die there.**
Sorry Gary, but if you had read the quote I gave where RJ (you know, the author) specifically states that Mat's death by lightning and subsequent undoing of his death, fulfilled the prophecy, you wouldn't have posted here.
