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obert Jordan errors?
by Elder Haman: 2003-01-20 | 5.67 out of 10 (6 votes)
Previous Categories: Errors in the Books
No! No! Don't kill me! Really, it's amazing there haven't been more mistakes considering how large the series is and that RJ doesn't use notes.
Actually there is another possible error- In TDR pg 405-406 Zarine gives Mandarb as her Hunter of the Horn name, and says Faile is what her father use to call her. Then when Perrin talks to her father, Bashere doesn't know who Falie is, and Perrin says that Falie is Zarine's Hunter of the Horn name. I suppose Falie could have been lying, and Perrin forgot about Madarb, or maybe Bashere doesn't remeber calling his daughter Faile, but it doesn't seem likely. (I have one friend who uses this as evidence that Falie lied, and argues that she is really a "new Forsaken" and that Perrin knows and is covering it up *Elder Haman rolles his eyes*).
Has RJ made any statements on this issue? I'd very much like to squash this Falie/Forsaken theory. Prehaps you could ask him. Although it may be more diplomatic if we refer to these things as "editor errors."
Comments
Tamyrlin: 2003-01-21
There are actually quite a few "errors" as seen by the reader, but I have heard Jordan debunk quite a few of them so I don't know what to think of the one concerning Faile (I would have to go back and read it contextually.) And I saw someone mention the Galad, Elayne thing you brought up...but again, I hated the section on Elayne. Anyone else have some thoughts. Traditionally, this isn't a theory, so I wouldn't post it, but this will be the spot for any discussion concerning what you believe are mistakes or errors in the books.
Logain: 2003-02-08
Well RJ would have be under enormous pressure now to finish these books and he's only human (don't flame me for that!) so its only natural some errors of that sort might creep in, especially if he's not keeping detailed notes. If he was, the books would probably take _longer_ to write, and we'd all be up in arms about that. Or at least I would. Forget the errors, gimme book eleven now! :-)
Nateosis: 2003-02-10
In response to that whole bashere not knowing faile thing, could that be more evidence in support of the "bashere is one of the forsaken" theories? *shrugs*
Theron: 2003-02-14
I have another thing, which, may be an error as well. Or it may be jordan trying to tell us something. But I would appreciate everyones thoughts on the matter. Here is what has me thinkng is a contradiction:
1)It concerns Mat's medallion and it's protective powers. Now, during the fight with Rhavin, it could not stop his weaves. (the qoute for proof: "Tendrils of smoke rose from the black haft of his spear, too, from his coat, the silver foxhead medallion that had not saved him from a mans channeling," (page 916, third paragraph in book five)
2)Later, when Mat is dancing with one of the reborn forsaken (the one that channels as a man, but looks like a woman...[eww!], I think it was Halima, but am not sure) she channels saiden at him and the foxhead stops the weave.
The quote:
"It should have been nothing, but before he had gone ten paces the foxhead went icy cold on his chest. He spun around, looking furiously for anything at all. What he saw was Halima staring at him in the firelight. Only for an instant before she seized a tall Warder's arm and whirled back into the dance, but he was sure he had seen shock on that beautiful face."
(It is on on P.177 on LoC) I stole this qoute from another posting on this sight, and I believe it is accurate, but I don't have the book to check...)
3) This gives us contradictory information on the protective value of mats medallion. Maybe RJ made a mistake or perhaps Halima is not what everyone believes (please be nice, I am just serching for an answer!)
Elder Haman: 2003-02-15
I wondered about that too. Maybe Mat was hit by secondary effects of Rahvin's weave??? Not very satisfing though. Mat asked for something that would free/protect him from Aes Sedai- I think the Elfinns would count a man as Aes Sedai- maybe Rahvin used the TP a little?
Daishan: 2003-03-02
This is actually also thoroughly discussed in the "sliding (under) doors" theory about the gholam and Mat's medallion.
Personally I've often wondered how little errors there are in the books.
The Faile/Bashere thing is the first plausible "plot error" I have seen. Although it's of course entirely possible that Faile made her own name up and just needed a quick reason so as not to look silly to Perrin. The Nynaeve/Egwene thing is probably just a large typo (sp? lol), just as I've seen men channeling Saidar and women channeling Saidin a few times, when it was obviously incorrect.
Anubis: 2003-03-06
theres what, 10 books now? each well over 500 pages. mistakes will happen with works that large no matter how thorough the editing process. though it is nice that they have kept mistakes down to silly little things that are fun to notice and dont really affect plot. (though i recall rand channeling saidar, how wierd would that be if it wasnt a typo)
Sinnamoon: 2003-03-14
As to the whole lightning thing with matt. Lightning isnt cast on a person its cast on an area.. In order for the medallion to protect matt from the weaves the weaves hafta be directed at him. After all it would be kinda silly for it to stop spells from happening around him just because they 'might' hurt him. The actual weave Must Touch him... Thats why :p Its not an error :)
scion2: 2003-03-19
About Theron's question. He himself is not attacked, only his clothes and his spear are affected....That might be a reason. Or maybe it is the fact that Halima is a _woman_ channeling. Mat afterall wished for a way to escape women who channeled not from saidar exspressly (don't quote me on that I think that's what he says)
Dorindha: 2003-03-27
On the whole Faile/Bashere thing. She calls herself Mandarb as her hunter name, she presumably just likes the sound of it. When Perrin laughs that it is the name of Lan's horse, so she gets defensive and chooses Faile as that is what her father used to call her. The only thing wrong with taking it at face value is that Bashere doesn't know who Faile is - he probably hasn't called her it for 15 years, and certainly wouldn't expect anyone else to call her it, and her is quite stressed at the time! I don't think it is a major problem. If any of the Basheres are baddies, it's going to have to be a long term thing, as they recognise each other, which rules out them being forsaken.
francisco: 2003-04-03
Correct me if i'm wrong, but there's another error in WH. There's a scene where Min, Avienda, and Elayne confront Rand before they bond him. In it, Avienda tells him that if he would make a bridal wreath for them she would pick it up. I was under the impression that under Aiel customs, women had the right to ask. Not men.
Elder Haman: 2003-04-03
Aviendha is saying that she is whiling to follow Rand's customs- ie she will abandon her to follow him. It's not an error.
Weird Harold: 2003-04-03
francisco,
Aviendha's comment isn't an error, it's an example of incomplete understanding of "Wetlander" marriage customs. In one of the early books, she's puzzled that in the wetlands a man does the asking. Her comment is just her way of saying that "if you ask us I'll vote yes."
wilder: 2003-04-24
In The Shadow Rising, right after Amys finds Egwene in T'A'R without permission, she says, "'Come. The others are waiting.' For the first time, Egwene realized that Nynaeve's blankets were empty." (p. 576 paperback)
Nynaeve's blankets were empty. I should hope so! Nynaeve is currently on a Sea Folk ship headed for Tanchico, and Egwene is in the Aiel Waste.
I think I have a first edition paperback. I'm curious as to whether this was corrected in later editions, or Nynaeve was using some form of Travelling to avoid having to sleep on the ship and upset her stomach!
WinespringBrother: 2003-05-04
A few errors/inconsistencies (or maybe brain freezes by the pov characters) :)
TITLE: Eye of the World,CHAPTER: 34 - The Last Village
"Brought Cairhien into the plotting before he was done, and you know how that ended. The Tree chopped down, and black-veiled Aiel coming over the Dragonwall. Well, he got himself decently killed after he'd fathered Elayne and Gawyn, so there's an end to it, I suppose. But why send them to Tar Valon? It's time men didn't think of the throne of Andor and Aes Sedai in the same thought anymore. If they've got to go some place else to learn what they need, well, Illian's got libraries as good as Tar Valon, and they'll teach the Lady Elayne as much about ruling and scheming as ever the witches could. Nobody knows more about scheming than an Illianer. And if the Guards can't teach the Lord Gawyn enough about soldiering, well, they've soldiers in Illian, too. And in Shienar, and Tear, for that matter. I'm a good Queen's man, but I say let's stop all this truck with Tar Valon. Three thousand years is long enough. Too long. Queen Morgase can lead us and put things right without help from the White Tower. I tell you, there's a woman makes a man proud to kneel for her blessing. Why, once . . ."
Seems Almen Bunt is talking about Andoran queens having Aes Sedai advisors for 3000 years, which doesn't make sense since Andor has only been existence for about 1000 years. Unless he is talking about tearing down the White Tower altogether .... but I think he was referring to the first point.
TITLE: Eye of the World,CHAPTER: 29 - Eyes Without Pity
Elyas nodded, still keeping his watch. "Indeed there was not. Artur Hawkwing died the very day the statue was finished, and his sons and the rest of his blood fought over who would sit on Hawkwing's throne. The statue stood alone in the midst of these hills. The sons and the nephews and the cousins died, and the last of the Hawkwing's blood vanished from the earth-except maybe for some of those who went over the Aryth Ocean. There were those who would have erased even the memory of him, if they could. Books were burned just because they mentioned his name. In the end there was nothing left of him but the stories, and most of them wrong. That's what his glory came to.
Odd, that Elyas either is disputing or is ignorant of the Firsts' of Mayene claiming to be descendents of Hawkwing.
TITLE: Eye of the World,CHAPTER: 41 - Old Friends, and New Threats
"You did not know." Moiraine studied Mat. He still lay with his knees pulled up to his chest, still snarled soundlessly at her, and his hand yet fought Lan to reach her with the dagger. "It is a wonder you got this far, carrying this. I felt the evil of it when I laid eyes on him, the touch of Mashadar, but a Fade could sense it for miles. Even though he would not know exactly where, he would know it was near, and Mashadar would draw his spirit while his bones remembered that this same evil swallowed an army - Dreadlords, Fades, Trollocs, and all. Some Darkfriends could probably feel it, too. Those who have truly given away their souls. There could not help but be those who would wonder at suddenly feeling this, as if the very air around them itched. They would be compelled to seek it. It should have drawn them to it as a magnet draws iron filings."
Does Fain somehow have the ability to mask Mashadar's taint? Otherwise the shadow should have been able to track him down long ago, unless Moiraine was mistaken.
The Green Man: 2003-05-05
I don't think that there was a mistake involving the mention of Nynaeve. I have recently read the book and am not looking at it but in context of what elayne was thinking about it would fit better that she would think about galad having a crush on Nynaeve because her thoughts weren't about egwene at all. Additionally when Nynaeve and Galad crossed paths Galad seemed to respect Nynaeve and maybe Elayne was just forming opinions on the observations she made at this time.
rubbernilly: 2003-05-06
What about where Egwene tries to call Elayne into TAR, and instead Aviendha shows up. She says of Elayne that she couldn't handle the flows to make the dream ter'angreal work, and that she has a brilliant temper sometimes (Elayne was jumping up and down on the ter'angreal).
The problem is, Elayne does not have a dream ter'angreal that requires channeling. Someone incapable of channeling could sleep with it against their skin and enter TAR.
Darren: 2003-05-11
The only REALLY glaring error I have found in the books, which I know there is a faction about, but I have to say that means nothing to me.
It's that Verin channels in the stedding, in TGH, to delve the Ogier. There have been a few other errors, to be sure (I'll check my copies of TSR to see about that line about Nynaeve's blankets. I'm pretty sure it got changed to Aviendha...) but the Verin one is an error on several levels.
I've read the explanations on how it may NOT be an error, and they all read like Marvel No-Prize explanations.
The Ogier Elders not only watched her delve, but respected her statements afterwards. They would know about the OP and the Stedding. So if she was "pretending" there is no excuse for them being fooled.
The man made an error, and I imagine, when the series is ever finished, that error will be corrected.
Mad Tinker: 2003-05-11
"Marvel No-Prize explanations"? Too funny - that brings back memories.
I've always thought that Verin had used some sense other than the OP to determine the Ogier had no soul. Similar to how women can sense other women who can channel. That's my story and I'm sticking to it...
Darren: 2003-05-13
Women can only sense other women who can channel when they can sense the True Source. That, too, won't work in a Stedding.
Mad Tinker: 2003-05-14
"Women can only sense other women who can channel when they can sense the True Source. That, too, won't work in a Stedding."
Where is that stated, Darren? At first that's what I thought automaticly, but I'm not sure anymore. Whenever the ability to sense another channeler is brought up, touching the OP to do it is not mentioned.
nowhere man: 2003-05-14
I'm sure it's been suggested somewhere already, but Verin may have been carrying a "well", like Cadsuane and Nynaeve in Far Madding (WH).
WinespringBrother: 2003-05-27
More apparent errors as I wind my way through another re-read :) from The Dragon Reborn
After being healed, Mat can hardly remember his own name, but he distinctly remembers conversations with Elayne during the trip from Falme to Tar Valon somehow.
Meanwhile, Egwene, in her first trip to Tel'aran'rhiod, with the ter'angreal, meets up with Perrin and is shocked to discover that a wolf, Hopper, is hanging out with him. Does she not remember the time they spent with Elyas, who said that wolves talk to Perrin with Egwene standing right there? And she should remember Hopper at least by name also, who tried to save them from the whitecloaks!
rubbernilly: 2003-05-28
I read an interview with RJ somewhere that talked about the Verin-in-the-stedding-delving, where he talked about how that wasn't Delving at all. It was just touch, and knowing what to look for. There was no channeling required.
Which makes sense, since the Greymen - those who have completely given their souls to the dark, can slip by (without being seen) as easily by those who can channel as those who cannot. That is, it doesn't take the power to notice the lack of a soul.
heronblade: 2003-06-04
perhaps egwene is surprised by hopper cause she doesnt expect him to be with perrin in the world of dreams cause he's dead? she knows this but not about the wolf dream so it would be a shock.
a dragonburned fool: 2003-10-30
Elder,
I agreed too the Egwene/Nynaeve thing is an error but now I suspect I'm not right. Is it realy proved Egwene not Nyneave is Galad's interest? Gawyn thinks it's Egw., but he's too more thinking about Egw. and could be too suspicious. Galad shows be interested first about what happens with Egw.'s and only after them with some confusion he mentions Nyn. But that can have 2 explanations: 1. He has crush on Egw. 2. He's hiding his crush on Nyn. by speaking about her companion Egw. Another question: Is realy Egw. the sort of girl Galad will like? I don't think so. But Nyneave the prominent defender of the right way to do things! Maybe Elayne realy thinks Galad loves Nyn. and she has her reasons for it.
Concerning Faile/Bashere problem: I don't think it's psychologicaly realistic the angry Bashere can feel it as normal some stranger's feelings about his Zarine being identical with his own father's feelings. Bashere will never suppose somebody will call her like he did before many years. And his "Faile"-word was not for him a name but only an way to call her (like one calls his wife "honey" - nobody will think about that "honey" being name)
Sidhe: 2003-11-25
About Faile:
Of course Bashere didn't recognize this sweet pet name of his daughter: she made it up! As she did with every other thing she told Perrin about her family and place of origin before finally saying who she really is. She has a sharp mind and an even sharper tongue, this was just an extremely fast way to wiggle out of the Mandarb-situation (she doesnt like being laughed at). Why then does she choose the name Faile? First, because women in Saldea are compared to leopards, eagles and hawks, because she likes hawks (is in other books anyway), and because she thinks of herself as a hawk locking on to its prey (either Perrin or the Horn at this point of the story). Second, because she is destined to be Perrin's foretold Hawk (maybe Ta'veren-thingy?)
So, it's not an error, it's just something she made up very fast to avoid questions...
Callandor: 2003-11-28
TITLE: Dragon Reborn, CHAPTER: 35 - The Falcon
"Farmboy! Perhaps I will call myself Faile. My father used to call me that, when I was little. It means 'falcon.'"**
Faile said this after Perrin was walking away, there was no need for her to "make up" anything. The Mandarb situation was already past so she most likely was telling the truth, and really shouldn't have needed to lie.
Cor Shan: 2003-11-29
Padan Fain is totally screwed up. He was 'refined' by the DO, then 'asorbed'by Mordeth, so he can carry the dagger....
Elyas probably doesn't believe the First of Mayene's claim, as the hundred years war was very brutal, only topped by the Trollocs Wars and the Breaking for screw-up-humanity-ness. I agree that Brashere was kinda stressed out, and would not have remembered that little name.... besides, it was 10 years as she was six when she was called that.
Deadsy: 2003-11-30
On the part about Mat, he didn't just ask to be away from Aes Sedai. He said "I want a way to be free of Aes Sedai and the Power"
I wonder if it will guard against the True Power then as well. He never said One Power.
dragonsceptor: 2004-01-15
I've noticed another group of errors that I have not seen anyone mention. There areat least two instances where it says that Rand takes hold of the "True Source". There is also one in COT that has Egween taking hold of the "True Source". This sounds like the "True Power" that comes from the DO. I can imagine how difficult it would be not to mix these up a time or two but I laughed really hard the first time I saw it. (Sorry, I don't have the page numbers. I just remember thinking about it as I was reading the series)
Rand-althor: 2004-01-15
Nope dragonsceptor thats no mistake. The One Power comes from the Source, which has been mentioned as the True Source earlier in the books i think, and is completely different from the True Power.
Callandor: 2004-01-15
But, that doesn't mean RJ hasn't slipped and put Rand channeling saidar tho, ;). But those are corrected of course.
dragonsceptor: 2004-01-16
Thanks for clearing that up. It always bothered me and I hadn't considered it from this perspective. So let me make sure I'm understanding how all this fits together. We've got the One Power, One Source, and True Source all from the creator and we've got the True Power from the DO. That makes for a confusing mess.
Frenzy: 2004-01-16
There is no One Source. There is the One Power, drawn from the True Source. This quote should clear it up:
Eye of the World CHAPTER: 12 - Across the Taren: "The One Power," Moiraine was saying, "comes from the True Source, the driving force of Creation, the force the Creator made to turn the Wheel of Time." She put her hands together in front of her and pushed them against each other. "Saidin, the male half of the True Source, and saidar, the female half, work against each other and at the same time together to provide that force.
Elan Morin Tedronai 21: 2004-03-02
I may be mistaken but wasn't it stated in tEotW that Perrin had no sisters whatsoever, but in Shadow Rising he went home to find his family all dead and talks about his little sisters?? Please correct me if I'm wrong. BTW, I also thought it was funny how Rand siezed saidar in a fury right after Alanna bonded him.
Darren: 2004-03-03
EH, do you actually believe that RJ doesn't use notes? I mean, I love the guy, but he definitely self-hypes in interviews...
talera: 2004-05-21
The most irritating mistake I have found is not really a mistake, rather, certain information has been left out. At the end of FoH, when Nynaeve captures Moghedien in TAR by making her drink the forkroot and says, "I'll see you very shortly. In Salidar", Nynaeve steps out of the dream.
Then, in LoC, "Marigan" has been found and captured. How? The Spider had hidden her true face with an inverted weave, so they wouldn't have known what she looked like in Salidar. Presumably, Nynaeve would have had to search the entire camp.
Zader: 2004-07-07
While looking up material for another theory, I was reading Kiruna's statement to Perrin after Dumai Wells.
(ACOS chapter 2) “Are you finished,farmboy By the 3 Oaths, no sister may use the One Power as a Weapon except against Shadowspawn or in defense of her life, or that of her Warder's or another sister. We could have stood where you would have had us and watched until Tarmon Gai'don without ever being able to do anything effective. Not until we were in dangerourselves.”
(LOC chapter 55) Perrin peered over the crest ...Shaido completely surrounded what seemed to be a ring of wagons...Balls of fire, small as a fist and large as boulders, hurtled into the Aiel... But silver flashes of lightnng struck at the wagons,too, and fire leaped from the Aiel... But if the battle seemed slightly in favour of the AS the sheer number of Shaido had to prove over-welming...Kiruna lying beside him sounded impressed... the AS went on. “I think there are at least thirty sisters in the camp.”
The part of her speech I believe to be not true is “Not until we
were in danger ourselves” From the above passage from LOC Kiruna is aware there are sisters being attacked by Aiel. Granted they are on opposing sides, but the oath does not make that distinction. Sisters were being attacked so what did it matter. Kiruna waded in to the middle of the battle so SAS could be attacked and defend themselves yet by that method SAS should have been able to use power because WT AS being attacked.
Maybe this is a mistake by RJ because none of SAS use power before going in to middle of battle.
dementia: 2004-08-09
About how Nynaeve found Moghedien in Salidar. Well first I'm not sure if she had the weave that made her look like 'Marigan' tied off, but if not then she would have lost her disguise when the forkroot made her lose the source. Second.. Nynaeve also tells Moghedien that she had let a few things slip.. things only someone close to Nynaeve, Elyne and company would know so they wouldn't have to check everyone.. only those who might have that knowledge. And also they could have assumed the three women who followed them to Salidar were likely suspects, so would have checked them first. And of course the woman would have been so asleep she could not be woken up letting them know they had found the right person ....
One problem though, did Elyne make the necklace/bracelet before this, when? The AS don't know about it, so where did she get the silver for it, and why did she make it in the first place, and not hand it over to the AS?
Callandor: 2004-08-10
**And also they could have assumed the three women who followed them to Salidar were likely suspects, so would have checked them first. And of course the woman would have been so asleep she could not be woken up letting them know they had found the right person ....**
It's even more likely they would start looking at Marigan, Areina and Nicola, right away due to Min's viewing of them being trouble ;)
**One problem though, did Elyne make the necklace/bracelet before this, when? The AS don't know about it, so where did she get the silver for it, and why did she make it in the first place, and not hand it over to the AS?**
When she made it, most likely soon after finding Moghedien, although her making it before hand is surely an option due to her desire to. The source of the silver is simple: Birgitte's Arrow.
dementia: 2004-08-12
Thanks Callandor. Of course they were allowed to keep the arrow. I forgot all about it. My husband also reminded me that they kept jewelery as well which could have supplied the other elements besides the silver.
But as far as the a'dam. They turned that over to the AS, and what they put on Mog wasn't that but a necklace that worked the same way.
Callandor: 2004-08-12
**Cerandin give the Nyn and Elayne an adam in FOH ch 24**
Yes, but that is not the a'dam that is used on Moghedien. The Aes Sedai in Salidar took it anyway.
WinespringBrother: 2005-02-22
An error with the Mistress of Novices - Morgase used to visit Sheriam in her study, but the MoN when Morgase was in the Tower was Merean Redhill, and Sheriam wasn't even Aes Sedai yet.
Githraine: 2005-02-23
I don't know if anyone has brought this up, but when Egwene went to Tanchico in TAR (book 4) she found an Angrial in the Hall of the Panarch's Palace. When N&E got there they did not find it, Moggy did not have it, the Black sisters did not seem to have it... Where did it go?
sporkify: 2005-06-23
Another possible error- How do the Trio-Elyn, Egwn, Nve- conseal the connection between the parts of the a'dam? (it exists- somewhere in Hunt. Egwn near dragged of horse by leash...)
free will: 2005-06-23
I'm not sure what leash effect you are concerned about. The a'dam has two parts, the collar and the handle. The handle cannot be moved by someone wearing the collar. The handle can be moved by anyone else (except male channelers). In the modified a'dam for Moggy, there was no physical connection between the collar and the handle, so Moggy was free to move, but she wouldn't have been able to move the bracelet (modified handle) had it ever been within reach. Just as she couldn't remove the clasp of the a'dam herself (why they didn't make the a'dam around her head in a solid piece, unremovable I do not know, I always assumed stupidity or arragonance on the characters, I don't see much error about RJ in this situation. Maybe a quote could help us to find your error candidate.
terez: 2005-06-26
Another error: in ACoS ch.22 "Small Sacrifices"
"Elayne would have known even if (Setalle Anan's) ability had been as small as her own nother's, and Morgase Trakand had had an ability so small she would have been sent away in a matter of weeks probably, had she not then been Daughter-Heir."
Of course, Morgase was never Daughter-Heir, and of course Elayne knows this.
Callandor: 2005-06-27
**Another possible error- How do the Trio-Elyn, Egwn, Nve- conseal the connection between the parts of the a'dam? (it exists- somewhere in Hunt. Egwn near dragged of horse by leash...)**
When? In The Great Hunt, when Nynaeve and Elayne and Min go to free Egwene, they use a sul'dam to serve as the damane, with Nynaeve acting as sul'dam when leading to rescue Egwene. They leave with no a'dam.
**Of course, Morgase was never Daughter-Heir, and of course Elayne knows this.**
That, at least, is an error. Morgase was taken away from the Tower due to the succession. So, unless Daughter-Heir is the title for next in line (which I could see, but why the need for Succession then?), it's an error.
WinespringBrother: 2005-06-27
**Of course, Morgase was never Daughter-Heir, and of course Elayne knows this.**
That, at least, is an error. Morgase was taken away from the Tower due to the succession. So, unless Daughter-Heir is the title for next in line (which I could see, but why the need for Succession then?), it's an error.
Not an error. Morgase wasn't the daughter-heir, Tigraine was before she vanished. And there is no vice-daughter-heir.
"Eye of the World, CHAPTER: GLOSSARY
Tigraine (tee-GRAIN): As Daughter-heir of Andor, she married Taringail Damodred and bore his son Galadedrid. Her disappearance in 972 NE, shortly after her brother Luc vanished in the Blight, led to the struggle in Andor called the Succession, and caused the events in Cairhien which eventually brought on the Aiel War. Her sign was a woman's hand gripping a thorny rose-stem with a white blossom."
"Crossroads of Twilight, CHAPTER: 11 - Talk of Debts
"Choosing who would be Queen of Andor was quite simple, boiled down to essentials. There were over four hundred Houses in the realm, but only nineteen strong enough that others would follow where they led. Usually, all nineteen stood behind the Daughter-Heir, or most of them, unless she was plainly incompetent. House Mantear had lost the throne to Trakand when Mordrellen died only because Tigraine, the Daughter-Heir, had vanished and Mantear had begun running heavily to boy children. And because Morgase Trakand had gathered thirteen Houses in her support. Only ten of the nineteen were necessary to ascend the throne, by law and custom. Even claimants who still thought they should have the throne themselves usually fell in with the rest, or at least fell silent and gave up their pursuit, once another woman had ten Houses at her back."
Callandor: 2005-06-28
**Not an error. Morgase wasn't the daughter-heir, Tigraine was before she vanished. And there is no vice-daughter-heir.**
Yes, WinespringBrother, that is the point. Tigraine was the Daughter-Heir, not Morgase. Hence, Elayne's explanation about Morgase (that she would've been put out of the Tower, if she was not Daughter-Heir), is an error.
WinespringBrother: 2005-06-28
***Yes, WinespringBrother, that is the point. Tigraine was the Daughter-Heir, not Morgase. Hence, Elayne's explanation about Morgase (that she would've been put out of the Tower, if she was not Daughter-Heir), is an error.***
***That, at least, is an error. Morgase was taken away from the Tower due to the succession. So, unless Daughter-Heir is the title for next in line (which I could see, but why the need for Succession then?), it's an error.***
Here is the actual quote. Elayne never thought that Morgase was the "daughter-heir". And the need for succession was exactly because there was no daughter-heir available to assume the throne when the Queen died.
Crown of Swords, CHAPTER: 22 - Small Sacrifices
"Elayne frowned, not noticing that she was chewing her lower lip. Slowed. Slowing. How did an innkeeper in Ebou Dar know those words? Maybe Setalle Anan had gone to the Tower as a girl, though she would not have remained long, since she clearly could not channel. Elayne would have known even if her ability had been as small as her own mother's, and Morgase Trakand had had an ability so small she would have been sent away in a matter of weeks probably, had she not been heir to a strong House."
I can't find a quote, but I believe Morgase left the Tower on her own to claim the throne, and wasn't "taken away".
free will: 2005-06-28
terez's quote matches both of my first editions of aCoS, which edition are you using that says "strong House"?
Callandor: 2005-06-29
WinespringBrother, I'd say that you are using a later edition book :) More than likely, it was brought up to RJ and then clarified in later editions. Heck, my copy of The Great Hunt still has Rand channeling saidar in it ;)
Ozymandias: 2005-06-29
I admit some of this is hearsay, since i haven't read the actual BWB, but I saw a quote, and I'll assume that that quote was correct. Apparently, the BWB states that Be'lal, among other Forsaken, razed the Hall of the Servants before the Bore was sealed. We see Jonai enter the Hall of the Servants during the Breaking during Rand's trip through time in Rhuidean. Pretty glaring contradiction right there.
terez: 2005-07-05
CoT, ch. 20 "In the Night"
Aviendha meets Egwene in TAR, wearing "the dream ter'angreal that dangled from a leather cord around her neck, a strangely twisted stone ring flecked with color. 'Where is Elayne?' Egwene asked anxiously. 'Is she alright?' . . . 'She could not make this work,' Aviendha said, the ivory bracelet sliding on her wrist as she touched the twisted ring that still hung from its strip of leather, above the necklace now. 'The flows kept slipping away from her. It is the babes.
That particular dream ter'angreal doesn't require channeling, and although pregnancy might affect one's ability to use it, Aviendha did mention "the flows." "She threw the ring down and jumped up and down on it." Maybe she shouldn't have tried channeling at it.
Callandor: 2005-07-06
**That particular dream ter'angreal doesn't require channeling, and although pregnancy might affect one's ability to use it, Aviendha did mention "the flows." "She threw the ring down and jumped up and down on it." Maybe she shouldn't have tried channeling at it.**
Elayne and Aviendha and Nynaeve brought the ring to Caemlyn (Elayne uses it in Winter's Heart, while Nynaeve uses a replica). I believe the one Aviendha is using is one of the many replicas Elayne made, and I believe all of those require channeling to use.
Of course, why Elayne would be using a replica is a bit suspicious anyway (I don't think Nynaeve took the original when she left with Rand, but that might be a possibility).
terez: 2005-07-11
The replicas of the stone ring didn't require channeling either, and the replicas also didn't have the red and blue, which was what made them imperfect. Also, Aviendha didn't appear "misty" throughout that entire passage.
WinespringBrother: 2005-07-19
Yet another possible error regarding Nynaeve.
Fires of Heaven CH: 54 - To Caemlyn
"Nynaeve was having no trouble maintaining the temper that allowed her to channel a flow of Spirit to the amber sleeping woman in her pouch. Even the feel of unseen eyes could not touch her through her anger this morning. Siuan stood in front of her on a Salidar street in Tel'aran'rhiod, a street empty save for them, a few flies, and one fox that paused to look at them curiously before trotting on. “You must concentrate,” Nynaeve barked. “You had more control than this the first time. Concentrate!”
Fires of Heaven CH: 48-Leavetakings
"Elayne hefted the box and opened the lid, pursing her lips as she studied the contents, the other two ter‘angreal they had carried all the way from Tear. A small iron disc worked on both sides with a tight spiral, and a narrow plaque five inches long, seemingly amber yet harder than steel, and with a sleeping woman somehow carved inside it. Either could be used to enter Tel'aran‘rhiod, though not so easily or so well as could the ring; to use either it was necessary to channel Spirit, the sole one of the Five Powers that could be channeled in sleep. It had seemed only right to Nynaeve, leaving them for Elayne, since she was taking charge of the ring. Closing the box with a sharp click, Elayne stared at her, absolutely expressionless, then stuffed it into one of her bundles alongside the silver arrow. Her silence was thunderous."
Fires of Heaven CH 55-The Threads Burn
"Whatever he was staring at-Rand perhaps?-had his full attention, but Nynaeve gave him no chance to notice her. It might be Rand down there. She could not tell whether Rahvin was channeling or not. She filled the corridor around him with fire from wall to wall, floor to ceiling, pouring into it all of saidar she held, fire so hot the stone itself smoked. The heat made her flinch back."
Nynaeve dreamed herself to Tel'aran'rhiod. When asleep, spirit is the only type of flow that can be channeled. Nynaeve is technically asleep, so she should only be able to channel spirit, yet she channeled fire at Rahvin. I wonder if she could have just "changed" TAR to create fire rather than channeling.
Callandor: 2005-07-19
**TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 3 - Reflection
"I did nothing except survive," he said in a dry voice: She opened her mouth, but he went on. "Do you think I could channel and not know it? I didn't do it in my sleep. This happened awake." He wavered, and caught himself on the sword. "Even you could not channel anything but Spirit asleep," Moiraine said coolly, "and this was never done with Spirit. I was about to ask what did happen."**
It doesn't matter if Nynaeve is asleep, since she is actually using Moghedien to channel. Personally, I don't think Moiraine is refering to tel'aran'rhiod here.
And, we have seen others channel flows beside Spirit in tel'aran'rhiod:
**TITLE: Dragon Reborn, CHAPTER: 55 - What Is Written in Prophecy
Tying and setting the weaves around the Black sister, Egwene turned her attentions to the cell door. Impatiently, she let Earth flood into the iron lock. It fell away in black dust, in a mist that dissolved completely before it struck the floor. She swung open the door, and was not surprised to find the cell empty except for one burning rush torch."
Nynaeve might have changed tel'aran'rhiod in that instance, since there is no actual mention of channeling, but Egwene channeled Earth into the lock in tel'aran'rhiod in The Dragon Reborn. And no, I don't consider it an error, nor do I think people are magically thinking about channeling so they do (heard things similar to this that would allow non-channelers to channel in tel'aran'rhiod by merely thinking it).
ThunderWalker: 2005-07-21
Do Aes Sedai normally loan out their Warders?
In "The Eye of the World", when Logain is brought to Caemlyn:
"Between the Wagon and the footmen, and to either side, rode a dozen Warders..."
Later Moiraine says: "There are perhaps twenty Aes Sedai in Caemlyn at this moment, and every one but I of the Red Ajah.".
Red Ajah have no Warders. The "perhaps" could mean that Moiraine is just guessing. There must have been a couple Greens with Logain.
nsondej: 2005-08-28
I dont think those warders were bonded to AS. Please correct me if i am wrong but i seem to remember something about warders on guard duty or doing work in Tar Valon that sounded as if they were not bonded. Just a guess...i'm most likely wrong
Anubis: 2005-08-29
im sure it is possible that there is time between becoming trained as a warder and being bonded, but i find it to be unlikely considering how aes sedai like to micro manage things.
Yaga Shura: 2005-08-29
"I dont think those warders were bonded to AS"
So then, would they actually be Warders?
Traveller: 2005-08-29
Some thing that is really bugging me is a quote that I read and reread about a million time before losing, saying that when Rand stepped through a gateway or something into the Black Tower, that the "air was full of saidar" describing how men were doing lots of stuff with the power. However I am on my millionth reread to try and find the quote, but it seems to have disappear. However I was wondering if it is the copy, because the one I have now is different to before. Please could someone else tell me if they remember reading this quote?
William Seeker: 2005-08-29
wilder; they did fix that error in later editions. Also in LoC, there's a chapter where RJ calls Alanna Manna for about 75% of it.
Anubis: 2005-08-30
it could be a common saidin/saidar slipup. RJ has done it several times that i can think of and usually it gets corrected in later prints.
Callandor: 2005-08-31
The last time Rand visited the Black Tower was in Lord of Chaos, chapter 42, The Black Tower (heh, nice coincidence ;)); there is a reference that is extremely similar to what you mention, though slightly different wording. It follows: "The feel of saidin seemed to fill the air." As I look, this is in my Lord of Chaos hardcover (granted, it is not a first edition), as well it is in my paperback edition of Lord of Chaos as well (as saidin). While, it maybe that you have a trade paperback, and that it's changed in there or a first edition.
However, my copy of The Great Hunt in paperback, still has Rand grasping "saidar" (obvious error); as well, in my paperback of Lord of Chaos, when Rand is bonded by Alanna, in the chapter following (Chapter 11, Lessons and Teachers), there is a single reference to a "Manna" (obviously typo from Alanna), while in my hardcover copy of Lord of Chaos, it is corrected to "Alanna," not "Manna."
Yaga Shura: 2005-08-31
"Please could someone else tell me if they remember reading this quote? "
Don't remember the specific quote, but there are a far few times where saidin and saidar almost seem interchangeable. They aren't, its just a typo/editing error, but they could make for some fun theories :)
Baean AimaDe: 2005-08-31
Was reading through again and came across this ( In answer to the channeling Spirit in Tel'aran'rhiod.
"They were as misty as Nynaeve or Leane. Sheriam and the others put more faith in dream ter'angreal that required channeling than in the rings. They just did not seem willing to believe that Tel'aran'rhiod had nothing to do with the One Power. At least Elayne could not tell which were using her copies. Somewhere about them three would have a small disc of what had once been iron, scribed on both sides with a tight spiral and powered by a flow of Spirit, the only one of the Five Powers that could be channeled in your sleep. Except here, anyway. The other three would be carrying small plaques once amber, with a sleeping woman worked inside each. Even if she had all six ter'angreal in front of her, Elayne would not have been able to pick out the two originals; those copies had gone very well. Just the same, it was still copying.
Davian93: 2005-08-31
****that the "air was full of saidar" describing how men were doing lots of stuff with the power. However I am on my millionth reread to try and find the quote, but it seems to have disappear. However I was wondering if it is the copy, because the one I have now is different to before. Please could someone else tell me if they remember reading this quote? ****
You're remembering correctly. But RJ books, much like in "1984" change mistakes in later editions.
Dumai Wells: 2005-08-31
Traveller: I have 2 copies of LOC, one is the big hard cover and one is a soft cover. The error you saw is in the hard cover page 540, it says "saidar" instead of "saidin" but there is no error in the soft cover that I have. This is just a typo that RJ's editors missed. Also, different people could have different books as per there are different editions, 1st edition, 2nd etc..
Traveller: 2005-09-01
Okay, thanks you guys, now I know I'm not going crazy, but here is another th9ing I can't get my head round, or even work out whether its an error or not:
When Rand and the Jindo and the Taardad enter Cold rocks Hold, they greet the roofmistress in particular ways.
Rhuarc (who is clan chief of the Taardad Sept) says: "I ask leave to enter your hold, roofmistress."
Lian replies: "You have my leave, clan chief."
Next, Heirn (who is the Jindo sept chief) says: "Roofmistress, I ask leave to come beneath your roof."
Lian replies: "You have my leave, Heirn. Beneath my roof, there is water and shade for yu. The Jindo Sept is always welcome here."
However, Couladin asks the same way as Rhuarc does ("I ask leave to enter your hold, roofmistress") and everyone reacts by murmuring and being shocked, so Aviendha explains that he asked as if he was a clan chief.
Lian insults him without angering the Shaido by answering him as a beggar- one alone and friendless: "You have my leave to step beneath my roof. Water and shade will be found for you."
Right- When Rand asks, he says: "Roofmistress, I ask leave to come beneath your roof." Everyone reacts strangely since he was meant to say what Rhuarc said like a clan chief. When I read this before, I always presumed that he had asked like a beggar, friendless and alone, as this seems the modest thing to have done, but in fact, he asked like Heirn, who I am sure did not ask like a beggar.
Now this has got on my nerves recently coz everyone acts like Rand was soooo modest, when really he just asked like a sept chief (which he definitely isn't) rather than like a clan chief, which he is (chief of chiefs). So this leads me to believe that this could be an error on Jordan's part, but I would like to hear someone elses opinion.
Sorry for making this so long... Ooops!
Yaga Shura: 2005-09-02
"So this leads me to believe that this could be an error on Jordan's part, but I would like to hear someone elses opinion."
If he asked in the manner of someone lower in station than he is entitled to, then he is being modest. Perhaps not as modest as he could have been, but still.
JamieK: 2005-09-11
on an unrelated topic, something that has bugged me on my current re-read of the series is that Aviendha has no second name, she is always referred to simply as "Avidenha" (even by the wise ones). the Aiel are meant to call everyone by their full name, not just 1st names. why is this? i cant believe this is a mistake, but deliberate RJ jiggery pokery but i didnt know where else to put this. so why doesn't Aviendha have her full name.
also on this point of name, in the first few books, alot of the aiel are only called by their first names (TDR mainly), is this also on purpose, or did RJ simply decide the aiel used both names after book 3?
Traveller: 2005-09-11
Ok, rereading Book 6 I have stumbled across something confusing that may yet shed light on the Verin chanelling in a steading thing:
When Nynaeve is looking at Siuan and Leane in order to study stilling, she thinks:
"Delicately she probed with the One Power, first at Siuan, then Leane. In a manner of speaking, she was not channeling at all. She could not channel a scrap unless angry, could not even sense the True Source. Yet it came to the same thing. Fine filaments of saidar, the female half of the True Source, sifted through the two women at her weaving. They just did not originate with her."
She is, of course, referring to the fact that she is wearing a bracelet to the a'dam on Moghedien's neck.
I am proposing that although it may not be practical, instead of using a well, Veerin could have been linked either through an a'dam or through another form of Linking to another channeler. I do think that the idea she has a well is more probable, but if what I am saying is true, then Verin may have some dirty secrets hidden.
silverwolf: 2005-09-11
Or, as was mentioned above, she might have just touched him and not channeled at all. There are several instances in tWoT of non-channelers feeling a lack of a soul--Luc, when remniscing on killing a gray man in the tower, said it felt like killing a corpse (book 9, when he attempts to kill Rand and Min), and Berelain, who touched Perrin when he was in TAR "too strongly," (quote from Hopper) later said that Perrin "slept like a man already dead. [Annoura] said you felt like someone who had lost his soul. I felt it as well, when I touched you."
So it seems that channeling is not required for Verin to sense the lack of soul--simple physical contact would suffice.
Anubis: 2005-09-12
I could be wrong, and probably am, but i thought rand said....
"i ask leave to step beneath your roof"
Basicly Rand asks as if he were a begger. The Roofmistress calls him modest and smiles and welcomes him as a chief. I could be worng and i cant look it up but ANYHOO.
Astra-al: 2005-09-12
This may have been mentioned, I don't have the time to look through this whole theory... but I found what I think is an error in tEotW.
**tEotW Chapter 44 The Dark Along the Ways (Page 670)
The bubble of light around them could as well have been a cave surrounded by stone, completely surrounded, with no way out. The horses might as well have been walking a treadmill for the change around them.**
Now, there may be a meaning to the word that I just don't know, but from what I do know, treadmills don't exist in Randland... Maybe there's a meaning I don't know but.... I was just re-reading the series and that struck me as odd.
Yaga Shura: 2005-09-13
Astra-al:
"Now, there may be a meaning to the word that I just don't know, but from what I do know, treadmills don't exist in Randland... Maybe there's a meaning I don't know but.... I was just re-reading the series and that struck me as odd."
Treadmills have been in use since the middle ages, in the construction industry especially.
Traveller: 2005-09-13
Anubis: sorry, you are wrong (according to my edition). My post earlier is completely correct- the wording has been rechecked, and that is what it says.
IshaSamMoridin: 2005-09-13
Verin could not have been linked using someone elses channeling anyway, as nothing done with the power outside of a stedding can directly affec anything within it.
Callandor: 2005-09-16
**Aiel are meant to call everyone by their full name, not just 1st names. why is this? i cant believe this is a mistake, but deliberate RJ jiggery pokery but i didnt know where else to put this. so why doesn't Aviendha have her full name.**
Because the Aiel are a clan society. They're full names include sept and clan. So Aviendha's full name is: Aviendha of the Nine Valleys sept of the Taardad Aiel. This is shown by many actual cultures of the world, and it's RJ doing a similar example.
**also on this point of name, in the first few books, alot of the aiel are only called by their first names (TDR mainly), is this also on purpose, or did RJ simply decide the aiel used both names after book 3?**
Aiel almost always introduce themselves with full names. I know for a fact Aviendha does when she is introduced.
Traveller: 2005-10-02
Right, I have found the quote I couldn't ages ago- I am sure it is an error, but I just wanted to post it so that you all knew I wasn't going, you know, INSANE, or something...
OK:
Rand has just travelled to the "farm" where the asha'man are training.
"The feel of saidar seemed to fill the air."
This is in the paperback edition of book 6, published by Orbit in 1995, on pg 776.
There, not so crazy now am I?
Yaga Shura: 2005-10-03
"There, not so crazy now am I? "
The books are full of those (my copy of TGH has Rand seizing Saidar at least twice, and there are several similar slips in the Cleansing in my copy of WH). Generally, just apply common sense to it to work out if it should be saidin or saidar.
JamieK: 2005-10-03
i noticed that mistake myself. but this has already been mentioned. not sure if its lack of editing, just hadnt been noticed or if its a publishing error, but it happens several times, mainly in book 6 paper back form i noticed. just have to use common sense really.
JamieK: 2005-10-23
an error i noticed in KOD. when perrin was thinking about getting faile out, the book said, "Galina had said so..." - perrin didnt know her as Galina, he knew her as Alyse.
Tom Thumb: 2005-11-07
Knife of Dreams Spoiler (small):
I am not sure if anyone noticed, but in KoD at one point Perrin (in his mind or from his mouth; I can't remember) refers to Galina once as her real name instead of the fake name she gave, while at all other instances he thinks of her as her fake name.
Saidar Haran: 2006-04-10
In TDR, Perrin thinks that he can't smell fear, then smells fear from Moiraine a few paragraphs later.
Jiana: 2006-04-10
Maybe not an error but hoped someone could clear this up. It comes back to balefire, that confusing pattern-unraveling use of the Power. When one is balefired, all that one has done is erased from the pattern, except for memories of that person, correct? So, if that is the case, what about Rahvin? Wouldn't his infiltration and attempted destruction of Caemlyn have been erased, when he was burned out of the Pattern?
Canan Urgas: 2006-04-11
Quote "Actually there is another possible error- In TDR pg 405-406 Zarine gives Mandarb as her Hunter of the Horn name, and says Faile is what her father use to call her. Then when Perrin talks to her father, Bashere doesn't know who Falie is, and Perrin says that Falie is Zarine's Hunter of the Horn name"
i think youve misunderstood there i havent checked the page but im sure zarine is her birth name, mandarb was her first Hunter name but she said oh no i'll choose Faile instead because it means falcon. and thats when perrin realises he is connected to her-mins viewing said he had a falcon and a hawk on his shoulders. zarines the birth name, which is what perrin called her until she nearly died and THEN he called her faile.
jason wolfbrother: 2006-04-11
The Balefire only burns the thread back a certain amount. the stronger the balefire the more the thread is burnt back. When Rand balefires the Myrddraal and Trollocs after killing Rahvin the balefire is extremely small and only erases their bodies. and maybe a second of life. When Rand balefires Rahvin he uses a massive amount of balefire and burns back over an hour of the thread life. He erased the actions Rahvin had taken since Rand's attack on Caemlyn. possibly a few minutes before but not months of activity.
Callandor: 2006-04-11
**When one is balefired, all that one has done is erased from the pattern, except for memories of that person, correct? So, if that is the case, what about Rahvin? Wouldn't his infiltration and attempted destruction of Caemlyn have been erased, when he was burned out of the Pattern?**
Correct, but it's only burned back in proportion to the amount of Power is used in the balefire. Rahvin was balefired back the most of probably anyone in the world. At best this was maybe a full day (and that's be exceedingly generous). He had been in Caemlyn for months at this time, truly showing up around winter time (before The Dragon Reborn). Even Rand's amount of balefire wasn't big enough to remove everything Rahvin did.
However, a theoretical balefire stream large enough to do so would have erased all his actions.
Callandor: 2006-04-11
Sorry for the double post.
**i think youve misunderstood there i havent checked the page but im sure zarine is her birth name, mandarb was her first Hunter name but she said oh no i'll choose Faile instead because it means falcon.**
No, what they mean is that the scene goes as you say: Zarine is going by Mandarb when she first meets Perrin, he tells her it's Lan's horse's name, and she changes to Faile. She says that her father called her Faile, and that it means falcon:
**TITLE: Dragon Reborn, CHAPTER: 35 - The Falcon
"Farmboy! Perhaps I will call myself Faile. My father used to call me that, when I was little. It means 'falcon.'"**
No problem so far.
What happens later is the problem, since Bashere doesn't recognize this when he first meets Perrin:
**TITLE: Lord of Chaos, CHAPTER: 46 - Beyond the Gate
"Faile?" Bashere barked. "Who in the Pit of Doom is Faile? We are talking about my daughter Zarine, and what you've done to her!"**
This, is a clear error, unless you just want to say that Bashere is too overwhelmed at this point and it was too far in the past for him to remember or some such.
El Bogarto: 2006-04-13
**This, is a clear error, unless you just want to say that Bashere is too overwhelmed at this point and it was too far in the past for him to remember or some such. **
Or unless you want to say that...Bashere is Demandred!
Bwa ha ha ha ha ha!
terez: 2006-10-22
Just a couple to add:
TITLE - Crossroads of Twilight
CHAPTER: 10 - A Blazing Beacon
The wide-eyed maid was more used to kneading bread dough than doing up rows of tiny buttons, but eventually she finished buttoning Elayne into her dark green riding dress, curtsied and stepped back breathing heavily, though whether from the effort of concentration or just from being in the presence of the Daughter-Heir was hard to tell. The Great Serpent ring on Elayne's left hand might have had something to do with it, too. Just over twenty miles in a straight line would take you from the manor of House Matherin to the River Erinin and all its great commerce, but the distance was far greater in actual miles to be covered through the Chishen Mountains, and people here were more accustomed to cattle raids across the border from Murandy than any sort of visitor, especially a visitor who wrapped the Daughter-Heir and an Aes Sedai into one package. The honor seemed beyond what some of the servants could bear. Elsie had been painfully conscientious in folding the blue silk gown that Elayne had worn last night and packing it away in a large leather traveling chest, one of a pair in the apartment's dressing room, so conscientious that Elayne had nearly taken over the task herself. She had slept poorly at first, fitful and waking, then slept late when she could sleep, and she was beyond chafing to be on her way back to Caemlyn.
Looking at the map, it's got to be more than 20 miles in a straight line from the River Erinin to the nearest border between Murandy and Andor. What gives?
Next, this just seems weird:
TITLE: Winter's Heart
CHAPTER: 2 - Taken
Perrin opened his mouth to tell them to start immediately, then closed it again. Grady had been a farmer, true, but never a hunter or woodsman. Neald thought any place without a stone wall was a village. They might know a footprint from an oak tree, yet if they did find tracks, very likely neither would be able to say which direction they were headed. Of course, he could go with them. He was not as good as Jondyn, but . . . He could go, and leave Dannil to deal with Arganda. And with Masema. Not to mention the Wise Ones' schemes.
along with this:
TITLE: Crossroads of Twilight
CHAPTER: 27 - What Must Be Done
His ears caught the crunch of hooves in the snow, slowly coming toward him. Minutes later, Neald and Aram appeared, the onetime Tinker pointing out tracks and the Asha'man shaking his head impatiently. It was a clear trail, but in truth, Perrin would not have bet on Neald being able to follow it. He was a city man.
against this:
TITLE: Knife of Dreams
CHAPTER: 9 - A Short Path
"Ah, they steal a chicken now and then, General," Neald said with a laugh, giving one of his thin waxed mustaches a twist, "but I'd not be calling them great thieves." He had enjoyed the Seanchan astonishment at the gateway that had brought them all here, and he was still posing over it, somehow managing to strut while sitting his saddle. It was difficult to remember that had he not earned that black coat, he would still be working his father's farm and perhaps wondering about marriage to a neighbor girl in a year or two.
So, is he a city man, or a farmer?
terez: 2006-12-31
Oh, and no one has added the Beonin error yet, apparently...unless I just can't read.
TITLE: Knife of Dreams
CHAPTER: 2 - The Dark One's Touch
"That is called a gateway. It can only be used to reach a place you know well, but you can learn a place by making a gateway there, and to go to somewhere you do not know well, you use Skimming." She altered the weave, and the opening dwindled into that silvery line once more then widened again. The oaks were replaced by blackness, and a gray-painted barge, railed and gated, that floated on nothing against the opening."
yeah, she got it backwards, and RJ already confirmed it was an error on this blog.
Davian93: 2007-01-01
I'd say Perrin's thoughts about Neald may be an error but only a maybe. Being a farmer does not mean you can neccessarily track game/people. Not all farmers live in places as remote as the Two Rivers and that is Perrin's perspective of what a farmer is. For all we know he could have worked on a farm just outside a major city and therefore never had to track game and never been near undeveloped terrain. Just a thought.
lordoftwilight: 2007-01-03
No the Fox head that Mat wears seems to protect him from people chnneling directly at him but the lightning striking him was not channaled at him but was chaneled around and since after the lightning is channeled it is no longer OP but a lightning bolt it does not follow the rule that anything Channeled at Mt disipates
terez: 2007-01-07
I'd say Perrin's thoughts about Neald may be an error but only a maybe. Being a farmer does not mean you can neccessarily track game/people. Not all farmers live in places as remote as the Two Rivers and that is Perrin's perspective of what a farmer is. For all we know he could have worked on a farm just outside a major city and therefore never had to track game and never been near undeveloped terrain. Just a thought.
Davian, it says straight out that he was raised on a farm, and it also says straight out that he was a city man. If it were merely connotations of being a city man, from the fact that he couldn't track, then there would be room for interpretation, but as it is, it's a direct contradiction.
Davian93: 2007-01-08
****Davian, it says straight out that he was raised on a farm, and it also says straight out that he was a city man. If it were merely connotations of being a city man, from the fact that he couldn't track, then there would be room for interpretation, but as it is, it's a direct contradiction. ****
There you go using facts and quotations to wreck a perfectly good gut reaction on my part. Yes, you are correct and I withdraw my statement.
terez: 2007-01-08
Oh, and that last Neald quote is actually from Knife of Dreams, Chapter 12, A Manufactory. I didn't notice it at the time, but the search chapter labels for Knife of Dreams are totally screwy, and I think everything from Chapter 9 on is labeled Chapter 9, or something. And someone used a Chapter 1 quote recently on the message boards that was labeled as the Prologue. So...not only do we have Errors in the Books, we have Errors in the Search. Keep an eye out. ;)
Davian93: 2007-01-09
****And someone used a Chapter 1 quote recently on the message boards that was labeled as the Prologue. So...not only do we have Errors in the Books, we have Errors in the Search. Keep an eye out. ;) ****
~looks around innocently~
I'd blame it on whoever edited the chapters for the search engine. ;)
Seriously though, maybe he grew up on a farm and then moved to the big city as a teenager?
Myrelle Sedai: 2007-01-10
Has anyone noticed the a'dam error? when Egwene was damane, she couldn't even touch the collar with the intention of taking it off, but Mat shows the Sea Folk damane how to take it off, and she opens and closes it several times.
Davian93: 2007-01-11
****Has anyone noticed the a'dam error? when Egwene was damane, she couldn't even touch the collar with the intention of taking it off, but Mat shows the Sea Folk damane how to take it off, and she opens and closes it several times. ****
Do you have a page number and book for the reference, Myrelle?
Anubis: 2007-01-12
**Has anyone noticed the a'dam error? when Egwene was damane, she couldn't even touch the collar with the intention of taking it off, but Mat shows the Sea Folk damane how to take it off, and she opens and closes it several times.**
This has bothered me and there are two options as I see it.
1. RJ made a mistake (unlikely, it seems rather important)
2. It was a side affect of Mat's medallion shorting out the A'dam in some way.
terez: 2007-01-13
I'd blame it on whoever edited the chapters for the search engine. ;)
I would take the blame if it was due, but I checked all my text files for all the chapters I did, and they're labeled correctly.
Has anyone noticed the a'dam error? when Egwene was damane, she couldn't even touch the collar with the intention of taking it off, but Mat shows the Sea Folk damane how to take it off, and she opens and closes it several times.
I don't think we can call that an error, because I think he took it off her neck first. As in, when she practiced opening it, she was just holding it in her hands, probably. Here's the quote:
________________________________
TITLE - Winter's Heart
CHAPTER: 31 - What the Aelfinn Said
"I'm just a gambler," he told her. Her hand guided his to the segmented collar around her neck, and it came open for him with a metallic snick. She drew a very long breath.
He only had to put her fingers in the proper places and show her the trick once before she got it, but he made her close and open the collar three times before he was satisfied. If he was going to do this, he might as well make sure it was done right. "Three hours, as near as you can," he reminded her.
________________________________
We know that he left if off her neck, else she wouldn't be free, right? It seems logical to assume that he never put it back on her neck after initially removing it.
Myrelle Sedai: 2007-01-14
*He only had to put her fingers in the proper places and show her the trick once before she got it, but he made her close and open the collar three times before he was satisfied.* In TGH Egwene couldn't even touch it with the intention of taking it off.
terez: 2007-01-16
Myrelle - Egwene couldn't touch it because it was on her neck. The Windfinder merely used her hands to guide Mat's hands toward her neck. She never touched it while it was on her neck. Therefore, it is not an error.
Myrelle Sedai: 2007-01-16
*Myrelle - Egwene couldn't touch it because it was on her neck. The Windfinder merely used her hands to guide Mat's hands toward her neck. She never touched it while it was on her neck. Therefore, it is not an error.*
**He only had to put her fingers in the proper places and show her the trick once before she got it, BUT HE MADE HER CLOSE AND OPEN THE COLLER THREE TIMES before he was satisfied.**
Callandor: 2007-01-18
Read the passage:
**TITLE: Winter's Heart
CHAPTER: 31 - What the Aelfinn Said
"What would you do if I took that collar off your neck?" Lifting his hand, he held his breath.
"I would free my sisters, if it pleases the Light that should happen." The Sea Folk accents in the darkness made him breathe again. "The Light be willing, we would cross the harbor, somehow, to where our people are held, and free as many as we were able." The unseen woman's voice remained low, but grew fiercer by the word. "The Light be willing, we would take back our ships, and fight our way to sea. Now! If this is a trick, punish me for it and be done, or kill me for it. I was on the brink of yielding, of giving up myself, and the shame of that will burn me forever, but you have reminded me who I am, and now I will never yield. Do you hear me? Never!"
...
"I'm just a gambler," he told her. Her hand guided his to the segmented collar around her neck, and it came open for him with a metallic snick. She drew a very long breath.
He only had to put her fingers in the proper places and show her the trick once before she got it, but he made her close and open the collar three times before he was satisfied. If he was going to do this, he might as well make sure it was done right. "Three hours, as near as you can," he reminded her.**
Mat took the collar off, then put it back on, and then showed her how to take it off. He took the damn collar off, THEN showed her how to open it.
Again, if it's on you, then you cannot take it off yourself -- hence why Mat had to do it and sul'dam in other instances. If it's not on you, anyone can open it, if they know how.
Gandelail: 2007-01-19
I'd have to re-read that Myrelle, but I was under the impression that he took it off her neck, and after he took the a'dam off, then he only had to show her once how to take it off... that way she could remove the rest of the a'dam from the others. If I'm mistaken, please forgive me!
:)
tworiverswoman: 2007-01-19
**He only had to put her fingers in the proper places and show her the trick once before she got it, BUT HE MADE HER CLOSE AND OPEN THE COLLAR THREE TIMES before he was satisfied.**
Mat had her open and close the collar -- but you can do that while holding it in front of you. She was not ABOUT to click that thing back onto her neck, once it had been removed.
1) Mat took the collar off her neck.
2) Mat showed her the pressure points that controlled the locking mechanism for the collar.
3) Mat made her prove she could open and close the collar three times before he left. It does NOT say "made her open and close the collar AROUND HER NECK" -- and she would commit serious mayhem upon his body if he were to have tried making her put it back on, I'm pretty sure.
eyeless: 2007-01-19
im just going to point one thing out. i read a quote on wikapedia.com or forbes.com one of the two i dont remember. robert jordan said that if he did happen to die before the series is finished (since he is on his death bed) he will have another author or possibly his wife finish the series based of his NOTES. as to the thing about falie being a forsaken i have a hard time believing that a forsaken would help perrin, one of rands closest friends, a key leader of the light, to achieve his key position of power. or help maintain it. in CofT your in falies head for alot of chapters while she is in the aiel camp. its highly unlikely that she would not mention anything about serving the dark one. and i cant remember any instance of falie channeling (which gives the forsaken there power)
Myrelle Sedai: 2007-01-20
Ok, I must have read it wrong.
Has any1 noticed the error about the 13 BA who left the Tower? According to Elayne, there were 'No more than 2 from every Ajah except the Red' but there were 3 Whites [Falion, Rianna and Joiya] and only 1 Blue or Yellow, depending on which Ajah Amico came from.
Gandelail: 2007-01-22
I may be wrong, but I think that this error was corrected in the later books indicating that Joiya used to be of the Grey ajah. Also, Amico was of the Yellow, Asne was of the Blue ajah.
:)
Gandelail: 2007-01-22
excuse me... that is, Ispan was of the Blue before joining the black. Asne was the green. Sorry everyone.
terez: 2007-01-22
Elayne said "Liandrin was the only Red. All the other Ajahs lost two each."
Amico - Yellow
Chesmal - Yellow
Jeaine - Green
Asne - Green
Berylla - Blue
Ispan - Blue
Eldrith - Brown
Marrilin - Brown
Falion - White
Rianna - White
Joiya - Gray
Temaile - Gray
I hope this helps. You can find all of this stuff at the Encyclopaedia WoT. :)
Davian93: 2007-01-22
****Has any1 noticed the error about the 13 BA who left the Tower? According to Elayne, there were 'No more than 2 from every Ajah except the Red' but there were 3 Whites [Falion, Rianna and Joiya] and only 1 Blue or Yellow, depending on which Ajah Amico came from. ****
The only problem with this is that Joiya came from the Gray Ajah, not the White...
"TITLE: Shadow Rising
CHAPTER: 5 - Questioners
Only that drab brown dress, however, would have told most people that Joiya Byir, standing beyond the table with her back turned, was a prisoner at all. She had been Gray Ajah, and had lost none of the Grays' cool self-possession on shifting her allegiance to the Black."
Marie Curie 7: 2007-01-23
Myrelle:
*** Has any1 noticed the error about the 13 BA who left the Tower? According to Elayne, there were 'No more than 2 from every Ajah except the Red' but there were 3 Whites [Falion, Rianna and Joiya] and only 1 Blue or Yellow, depending on which Ajah Amico came from. ***
Falion and Rianna are Whites, but Joiya is Gray Ajah:
-----
TITLE: Shadow Rising
CHAPTER: 5 - Questioners
Only that drab brown dress, however, would have told most people that Joiya Byir, standing beyond the table with her back turned, was a prisoner at all. She had been Gray Ajah, and had lost none of the Grays' cool self-possession on shifting her allegiance to the Black. Every line of her proclaimed that she stared rigidly at the far wall of her own choice, and for no other reason. Only a woman who could channel would have seen the thumb-thick flows of Air that held Joiya's arms to her sides and lashed her ankles together. A cage woven of Air kept her eyes straight ahead. Even her ears were stopped up, so she could not hear what anyone said until they wanted her to.
-----
So, the two Grays were Joiya and Temaile. The two Blues were Berylla and Ispan. The two Yellows were Amico and Chesmal. According to Encyclopedia WoT, RJ confirmed on his blog that Amico was Yellow. So, there's no error.
Myrelle Sedai: 2007-02-04
*"TITLE: Shadow Rising
CHAPTER: 5 - Questioners
Only that drab brown dress, however, would have told most people that Joiya Byir, standing beyond the table with her back turned, was a prisoner at all. She had been WHITE Ajah, and had lost none of the WHITES' cool arrogence on shifting her allegiance to the Black."*
Straight from the book...Oh, and Berylla was a Gray
Gandelail: 2007-02-05
In the original printing, it is as you quoted, Myrelle, and you are correct, it was an error. It was fixed in later printings to state that she was of the Gray Ajah. and just for the record... this list is from information now known to be correct (or corrected)...
Ispan Shefar - Blue
Berylla Naron - Blue
Marillin Gemalphin - Brown
Eldrith Jondar - Brown
Joiya Byir - Gray
Temaile Kinderode - Gray
Jeaine Caide - Green
Asne Zeramene - Green
Liandrin - Red
Falion Bhoda - White
Rianna Andomeran - White
Amico Nagoyin - Yellow
Chesmal Emry - Yellow
Marie Curie 7: 2007-02-05
Myrelle:
**TITLE: Shadow Rising
CHAPTER: 5 - Questioners
Only that drab brown dress, however, would have told most people that Joiya Byir, standing beyond the table with her back turned, was a prisoner at all. She had been WHITE Ajah, and had lost none of the WHITES' cool arrogence on shifting her allegiance to the Black."*
Straight from the book...Oh, and Berylla was a Gray**
Notice that the quote you posted is the same as the one that I posted, but with Gray replaced with White. The point is that Joiya was incorrectly mentioned as White in early editions of the books, and that was corrected to Gray in later editions.
From Thus Spake the Creator:
Ask about the three White Black Aes Sedai in Liandrin's group when there should only be two: Joiya Byir (killed at Tear), Rianna Andormeran, Falion Bhoda
Complete surprise. Really? Mutter mutter. Have to check that out.
From tarvalon.net:
Joiya Byir was an Aes Sedai of the Gray Ajah (in earlier printings, she was referred to as White). She was also one of the Black Ajah with Liandrin. Despite her arrogant air and piercing dark gray eyes, she had a grandmotherly face as well as voice. Her dark hair did not show a hint of gray (TDR, Ch51; TSR, Ch5).
As far as Berylla goes, RJ confirmed on his blog that Amico was Yellow and Berylla was Blue:
RJ's Blog October 6, 2005
For the ever-popular Anonymous, Fain might be said to be contagious in the sense that he corrupts those he is around long enough, but not in the sense that they then have something communicable. As for his influence over people, remember that Fain is now an amalgam of Fain and Mordeth, and Mordeth was a counselor, quite accustomed to and skilled in gaining the ears of the mighty. And yes, Amico Nagoyin was Yellow, and Berylla Naron Blue.
Davian93: 2007-02-07
****In the original printing, it is as you quoted, Myrelle, and you are correct, it was an error. ****
Had forgotten about that. I should have looked at my books instead of relying on that pesky search engine. Seriously though, good catch of an original error Myrelle.
Myrelle Sedai: 2007-02-10
*Seriously though, good catch of an original error Myrelle.*
Thnx. I like finding errors...it's one of my favorite things to do when i'm rereading books. Another thing I noticed: in LoC, I think it was, Leane uses a Dream Ter'angeal that requires channeling to enter Tel'aran'rhoid while she was stilled.
Marie Curie 7: 2007-02-14
Myrelle:
*** Another thing I noticed: in LoC, I think it was, Leane uses a Dream Ter'angeal that requires channeling to enter Tel'aran'rhoid while she was stilled. ***
I checked through Lord of Chaos, and I couldn't find the scene to which you were referring, though it's possible that I missed it. Perhaps if you post the chapter or provide a quote, we could better discuss it.
Myrelle Sedai: 2007-02-17
*I checked through Lord of Chaos, and I couldn't find the scene to which you were referring, though it's possible that I missed it. Perhaps if you post the chapter or provide a quote, we could better discuss it.* I can't find it either..... Maybe it's in FoH?????
Or maybe I just missed it.
terez: 2008-05-02
This is sort of a dumb one, but I do like to nitpick:
________________________________
TITLE – New Spring
CHAPTER: 13 – Business in the City
The prices Tamore mentioned, once the pinned garments had been slipped off them and onto dressmaker's forms, made Siuan's eyes pop, though at least she remained silent. She would learn. In a city like Tar Valon, one gold crown for a woolen dress and ten for a silk were reasonable from a seamstress of Tamore's quality. Still, Moiraine murmured that she would give a generous gratuity for speedy completion. Otherwise, they might not see anything for months.
________________________________
And later:
________________________________
TITLE – New Spring
CHAPTER: 24 – Making Use of Invisibility
She intended to violate nearly every rule of propriety between a woman and her seamstress. She tolerated the measuring, since there was no way to hasten it, but Silene's eyes narrowed at the speed with which she chose fabrics and colors. For a moment it seemed she would refuse to sew what Siuan needed, but Moiraine calmly said she would pay twice the usual rate. The woman's eyes went almost to slits at the mention of price, yet she nodded. And Moiraine knew she would get what she wanted. Here, at least.
"I want them tomorrow," she said. "Put all of your seamstresses to work."
Silene's eyes did not narrow at that. They widened, dashing with anger. Her voice became icy. "Impossible. At the end of the month, perhaps. Perhaps later. If I can find time at all. A great many ladies have ordered new gowns. The King of Malkier is visiting the Aesdaishar Palace."
"The last King of Malkier died twenty-five years ago, Silene." Taking up the fat purse, Moiraine upended it over the table in the measuring room, spilling out thirty gold crowns. She was ordering more than three dresses, but while silk was as expensive in Chachin as in Tar Valon, the sewing was much less, and that was the largest expense in a dress.
________________________________
So, the first quote makes it clear that sewing is not the largest expense in a dress, since Tamore only charged one gold crown for a woolen dress and ten for a silk one. So in the second quote, RJ is trying to explain why thirty gold crowns would be much more than even twice the price of the more than three dresses, some of which are silk, when before he said that a silk dress would be ten crowns…but he didn’t do so well….
Egwene: 2008-05-13
There is a mistake in “The Dragon Reborn†the chapter entitled “The Price of the Ringâ€. It states that Egwene has an ageless face while she is the Amyrlin in her test for accepted, yet later in that same chapter, she states that she never held the oath rod. Hasn’t it been hinted at that you do not gain the ageless look unless you’ve taken the oaths? The forsaken, for example, are never described as having an ageless face.
Marie Curie 7: 2008-05-19
Egwene:
"There is a mistake in "The Dragon Reborn" the chapter entitled "The Price of the Ring". It states that Egwene has an ageless face while she is the Amyrlin in her test for accepted, yet later in that same chapter, she states that she never held the oath rod. Hasn't it been hinted at that you do not gain the ageless look unless you've taken the oaths? The forsaken, for example, are never described as having an ageless face."
This is not an error. You're correct about the fact that swearing the three oaths is what leads to the ageless look for the Aes Sedai. However, when Egwene took the Accepted test, she didn't realize that it was the Oath Rod that leads to the ageless look. The Accepted test ter'angreal seems to build on the knowledge and memories of the person who enters in order to construct each scenario. Thus, when Nynaeve entered, she encountered Aginor, was in Emond's Field, and was married to Lan. Egwene ended up in the Two Rivers, was with Rand, and was in the Tower.
Another important indicator that Egwene's ageless look in the Accepted test was not an error but rather was meant to convey that the test reflects in part the person's knowledge and beliefs is the way that Beldeine looked. Beldeine had been stilled three days previously, so she should have looked young again like Siuan and Leane did after they were stilled, but Egwene had no thoughts and made no comments about Beldeine's lack of the ageless look. Egwene believed that Beldeine should still have the ageless look, so she did.
Green Man 22: 2008-05-20
" There is a mistake in “The Dragon Reborn†the chapter entitled “The Price of the Ringâ€. It states that Egwene has an ageless face while she is the Amyrlin in her test for accepted, yet later in that same chapter, she states that she never held the oath rod. Hasn’t it been hinted at that you do not gain the ageless look unless you’ve taken the oaths? The forsaken, for example, are never described as having an ageless face."
The problem with your example is that Egwene did not know about the effect of the Oath Rod at that point. Since her dream would be based on her current knowledge, there was no reason in her mind to not have the ageless face.
terez: 2008-05-26
I'd say the ter'angreal experience is built not only on what the participant knows and believes, but also on some truth beyond the participant's current knowledge (I talked about that some in my Great Purge theory).
Marie Curie 7: 2008-05-28
terez:
"I'd say the ter'angreal experience is built not only on what the participant knows and believes, but also on some truth beyond the participant's current knowledge (I talked about that some in my Great Purge theory)."
Yeah...that's why I said that the Accepted test ter'angreal "reflects in part the person's knowledge and beliefs". :)