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arkfriend: How do you become one?
by Flinn Sedai: 2004-02-13 | Not yet rated
Previous Categories: Padan Fain
How do you join the Black Ajah?
Think about it. You cant go around asking Aes Sedai if you can join the Black Ajah, they would kill you. There would be a few who were darkfriends before they were sisters, but not enough to account for the numbers they apparently have. There has to be something that can seek them out and get them to be Black Ajah. Make them want to, because as we have seen, most were NOT turned against their will. Most were given promises. But most Aes Sedai wouldnt turn even if they were promised power, everlasting life, etc. and there is no string of Aes Sedai corpses, so there has to be some sort of pattern to joining.
This brings me to your basic darkfriend. How do you become one? Apparently you swear an oath that pledges your soul to the DO, but that still doesnt explain how you choose to become one. Again, there has to be some sort of pattern, because you cant go asking people.
Just a curiosity. If you have any thoughts on how to become a Darkfriend or how to become Black Ajah, let me know.
Comments
Tamyrlin: 2004-02-28
Good question. This should probably be posed to Jordan, since I can't remember any quotes that discuss recruiting techniques, especially for Black Ajah. I wonder if it has something to do with how Verin approached the Aes Sedai in the camp and used a form of compulsion on them. In other words, you are Black Ajah, you make friends, and at a vulnerable moment, you find out the likelihood of their evil intentions. Or, maybe T'A'R is utilized in some manner to discover such a thing...hmm.
Cossack: 2004-02-28
There is a possibility that you dont go looking for the recruiting office of the darkfriends, it comes to you. Maybe the darkfriends that are already, have the task of looking around, and if they see someone with extreme wishes to do evil, they grab them.
Oatman: 2004-02-28
People become darkfriends by speaking secret oaths forswearing the light and pledging themselves to the shadow. In one of the books Padan Fain explains that these oaths leave a mark on a person as surely as a sign painted on their forehead for the people who know what to look for, usually those who are high in the darkfriend council. The people with these marks would be sought out by those who could see them and brought into the circles that DF's operate in. When an Aes Sedai took an oath like this, I would assume it would be Ishmael, would take them aside and teach them the sign language that the Black Ajah uses, and then have the head of the black ajah send a member of the new black ajahs heart and introduce them into the black ajah.
asdaf: 2004-02-28
How to become a Darkfriend?
Hm... I guess it looks a little bit like secret agents of one agency recruiting secret agents of some other agency. Lots of undertones, questions in questions, mutual distrust, readiness to strike on the slightest sign of failure.
In case of ordinary people it probably starts very innocent and gradualy moves towards things that can only be described as 'evil'. At the end such a man looks at what he had done and pledging to Dark One seems natural to him. There are of course promises of eternal life, power, wealth and other things desired by a particular would-be-darkfriend.
In case of Aes Sedai, recruitment is even difficult. I don't think that a full sister could be subject of such an action. I believe that all (almost all) Black Ajah who weren't black arriving to Tower are recruited while being Novice or Accepted and some form of Compulsion is very probable - not to induce them to become a BA, but to make them forget things they shouldn't remember. BA watches Novices and Accepteds looking for potential members just as ordinary Ajahs do, so risk of failure is diminished. And of course promises of power...
charliec: 2004-02-29
I don't think the marks are visible to most darkfriends... Fain by this time was already merged with Mordeth and a rebel df, I think he was surprised by the marks when he began seeing them. Still they do show up that even those who just idly dabble in the evil get marked somehow. It seems that just sying 'Shai'tan' is enough to bring his attention, so no doubt those who deliberately (or foolishly accidentally) decide to offer themselves to him are noticed. From this it would seem reasonable to assume that the new darkfriend would then be contacted when the DO or his minions see fit.
So yes, while there probably are deliberate df recruiters, I think that just making the decision independtly would be enough.
Unicorn: 2004-02-29
I will go with Cossack on this one. I think that at least some maybe not all existing Darkfriends are ginen the task of "infiltration" this or that. sort of like "we need a contact within House X, find someone", so the "recruiter" sorts of mingles with people of House X. Ofcourse he/she will be socializing on his/her own level. Next step is likely targets, look for people who are disgruntled, in debt, wants to impress the girl(s). Step 3, make them dependent on you, loan them money, promise them access to this or that, in return for favors. Step 4 at some point they want something from you and you can't give it, but your friend (the DF patron) can. You go oaths are sworn, because now the target is either in too deep or has comme to terms with himself that "if this is being a darkfriend, well it's not so bad, so what the hell, i'll swear"
My guess is it could be something like that. I would think reading an autobiography of some CIA or KGB recriuter from the cold war would give the MO.
The Darkfriends has 3000 years of experience, they most likely know the signs, of someone who can be brought in. One such is the sadistic type hwo just like to be evil, but it is only one. I don't really feel that every single DF we have met has been Evil in the sense of actually liking being cruel and such, also not every one who is ruthless and cruel is a DF, e.g. Elaida, definitly umsypathetic and kinds of things associated with DF's, but I din't think she is.
Daekyras: 2004-03-01
If the black ajah made a mistake, say they misread someones intentions and tried to recruit them, would they have to kill anyone who said no?
As for regular street Darkfriends, I like the idea of an "infiltrator". Someone who insinuates their way into a group and lays the seeds.
I had an idea I was planning to form a (bad) theory that darkfriends are recruited while young. You know, from the famous quote " give me a boy from the age of 8 to 12 and I give you the Man for life" or somesuch hocum. I'm not necessarily talking about that young but lots of young people form clubs and societies, maybe they can be got at there.
Zaela Sedai: 2004-03-01
I 've been looking for this quote forever! Well a couple hours anyways!
TITLE: Lord of Chaos, CHAPTER: 28 - Letters
"The door burst open, and young Perwyn Belman burst into the room pursued by his mother. Nan Belman was a handsome woman, though Fain seldom noticed whether a woman was or not now,** a Darkfriend who had thought her oaths were just dabbling in wickedness until Padan Fain appeared on her doorstep.** She believed him a Darkfriend too, one high in the councils. Fain had gone far beyond that, of course; he would be dead the moment one of the Chosen laid hands on him. The thought made him giggle."
This scene mae me think that anyone can swear to the DO at anytime and they would be bound to him so to speak from then on. I do not believe that it would take an oath rod to do so. Kind of like when someone of the light swears "On the hope of my rebirth and salvation". Once you swear to the DO he can find you if he needs you. Remember how seriously the DO is taken in in Randland, NOONE would dare speak the dark oaths if they did not want to be DF, it's not taken lighly. Just as no follower of the light would swear "On the hope of my rebirth and salvation" if they were not going to follow through.
Callandor: 2004-03-02
**How did fain know she was a Darkfriend? Maybe they ARE marked.**
They very well could be.
**TITLE: Lord of Chaos, CHAPTER: 28 - Letters
"Fain paced; he had to move. Al'Thor's downfall had to be his doing—his!—not the Chosen's. How could he hurt the man again, hurt to the heart? There were those nattering girls at Culain's Hound, but if al'Thor did not come when the Two Rivers was harrowed, what would he care even if Fain burned the inn down and the chits with it? What did he have to work with? Only a few remained of his onetime Children of the Light. That had only been a test really—he would have made the man who actually managed to kill al'Thor beg to be skinned alive!—yet it had cost him numbers: He had the Myrddraal, a handful of Trollocs hidden outside the city, a few Darkfriends gathered in Caemlyn and on the way from Tar Valon. The pull of al'Thor dragged him on. It was the most remarkable thing about Darkfriends. *There should be nothing to single out a Darkfriend from anyone else, but of late he found he could tell one at a glance, even someone who had only thought of swearing to the Shadow, as if they had a sooty mark on their foreheads."
**TITLE: Crossroads of Twilight, CHAPTER: 21 - A Mark
"It flowed toward her - no; not it - the Great Lord, clothed in the skin of a Myrddraal, flowed toward her. He walked on legs, yet there was no other description for the way he moved. *The pale, black-clad shape bent toward her, and she would have shrieked when he touched a finger to her forehead.* She would have shrieked if she could have summoned any sound at all. Her lungs were airless sacks. The touch burned like red-hot iron. Vaguely, she wondered why she did not smell her own flesh burning. The Great Lord straightened, and the searing pain dwindled, vanished. Her terror did not lessen in the slightest, though."
I am not suggesting that every Darkfriend needs to be summoned and marked by SH, but it seems there maybe something that singles them out to certain people/beings.
Blacksmith: 2004-03-04
I'll have to look for the quote, but I remember when Halima first showed up at the S'AS camp. She made a fist at her side and put her thumb inbetween her first two fingers. It was a sign recognized by other DFs.
Zaela Sedai: 2004-03-04
That's a BA sign only, here's the quote
**TITLE: Lord of Chaos, CHAPTER: 30 - To Heal Again
"Delana opened her mouth to say that she had never heard of any Halima Saranov, and a woman appeared in the doorway. Delana stared in spite of herself. The woman managed to be slender and lush at the same time, and wore a dark gray riding dress cut ridiculously low; long lustrous black hair framed a green-eyed face that probably made every man who glimpsed it gape. That was not why Delana stared, of course. The woman held her hands at her sides, but with thumbs thrust hard between the first two fingers. Delana had never expected to see that from any woman who did not wear the shawl, and this Halima Saranov could not even channel. She was close enough to be sure of that."
Callandor: 2004-03-04
**TITLE: Lord of Chaos, CHAPTER: 30 - To Heal Again
Delana opened her mouth to say that she had never heard of any Halima Saranov, and a woman appeared in the doorway. Delana stared in spite of herself. The woman managed to be slender and lush at the same time, and wore a dark gray riding dress cut ridiculously low; long lustrous black hair framed a green-eyed face that probably made every man who glimpsed it gape. That was not why Delana stared, of course. *The woman held her hands at her sides, but with thumbs thrust hard between the first two fingers.* Delana had never expected to see that from any woman who did not wear the shawl, and this Halima Saranov could not even channel. She was close enough to be sure of that.**
**TITLE: Lord of Chaos, CHAPTER: 30 - To Heal Again
Halima smiled at her mockingly. "Do you really think the secrets of the .. .shall we say, darker Ajah, are that secret? *As for how high you stand, you know very well that if a beggar gave the proper signs, you would leap to obey.* My story is that I was traveling companion for a time to one Cabriana Mecandes, a Blue sister. Unfortunately, Cabriana died in a fall from her horse, and her Warder simply refused to leave his blankets or eat after that. He died, too." Halima smiled as if to ask whether Delana was following. "Cabriana and I talked a great deal before she died, and she told me about Salidar. She also told me a number of things she had learned about the White Tower's plans for you here. And for the Dragon Reborn." Another smile, a quick flash of white teeth, and she went back to her tea and her watching. Delana had never been a woman to give up easily. She had bludgeoned kings into making peace when they wanted war, dragged queens by the scruff of the neck to sign treaties that had to be signed. *True, she would have obeyed that hypothetical beggar if he had the proper signs and said the right things, but Halima's hands had identified her as Black Ajah, which she clearly was not.* Perhaps the woman thought that was the only way to make Delana acknowledge her, and perhaps she wanted to show off her forbidden knowledge as well. Delana did not like this Halima. "And I suppose I am supposed to make sure the Hall accepts your information," she said gruffly. "It should be no problem so long as you know enough of Cabriana to support your tale. I can't help you there; I never met her above twice. I suppose there is no chance of her appearing to spoil your story?"**
vodomar: 2004-03-05
I think Fain is an extremely special case. His ability to detect darkfriends may be due to a 's[ecial power' the Dark One gave him and reserved for only specials darkfriends (e.g. the Chosen, Shaidar Haran, and perhaps a few others). Only a select few darkfriends would have the 'honour' of being marked personally (e.g. Shaidar Haran and Alviarin).
If darkfriends do swear oaths I doubt they would be bound to them like the oath rod binds Aes Sedai to their three oaths. "No one is too long in the dark that they cannot return to the light" or some such, If they swore on an oath rod they would need it to unswear them and that may be a difficult - remember Ingtar at the end of the Great Hunt.
It's hard to believe there is no recruiting taking place. There are heaps of disgruntled people in every nation and all they need is a little push and they'll forsake the light in search of a better life (or at least they think that's what they'll get). 'Keep it in the family' - parents could easily influence their children to become darkfriends and swear themselves to Dark One (an example is Paitr iirc).
I guess Black Ajah would be considered as important darkfriends and so there would be a more active recruiting process there. But it's probaby more dangerous to recruit in the tower than in a village or city, so they keep it very quiet (might explain a couple of Aes Sedai deaths) to avoid disaster.
a dragonburned fool: 2004-03-05
It's uncommon what Fain sees in DF's, but it is an evidence that there is something more then just secret society membership, and that "something more" have it's special effects on the darkfriend. That comes in connection with the mentioning the DO and the bad effects on it. If everybody can attract DO's attention by simply mentioning His name, and that attention has real effects, what it would be when one mentions DO's name together with some words of dedicating oneself to that forbidden name. It would allow a special attention of DO to the life of the darkfriend, and that could be sensed by the darkfriend and it could move this DF to concrete actions.
However not every DF is member of DF organizations. Fain mentions that lot of DF think their oaths don't make them do something special. So only some of them are part of the organization.
caitlin: 2004-03-06
Is it possible to be a Darkfriend before and Aes Sedai? It sounds kind of impossible, what with the thee portals you have to go through to become an Accepted. Plus all of that dedication you have to put into the tower. Could a Fade even get into the White Tower? Just an observation.
Callandor: 2004-03-06
**Is it possible to be a Darkfriend before and Aes Sedai? It sounds kind of impossible, what with the thee portals you have to go through to become an Accepted. Plus all of that dedication you have to put into the tower. Could a Fade even get into the White Tower? Just an observation.**
Yes, Liandrin was a Darkfriend before going to the Tower.
A Grey Man can get into the WT, as seen in TDR, so a Fade could get in there, but with more difficulty I'm willing to bet.
charliec: 2004-03-07
a fade could get into the tower, but it'd need to be heavily shielded by a Black Ajah/forsaken/dreadlord or it'd be immediately sensed + destroyed...
Here's a question- if DFs are in some way marked out by their decision so that Fain can see the signs... what happens if they return to the light? What do you think Fain would have seen on Ingtar's forehead?
Flinn Sedai: 2004-06-03
**People become darkfriends by speaking secret oaths forswearing the light and pledging themselves to the shadow. In one of the books Padan Fain explains that these oaths leave a mark on a person as surely as a sign painted on their forehead for the people who know what to look for, usually those who are high in the darkfriend council.**
About this supposed oath; it still does not explain how they would learn of the oath. There is no way that anybody can simply swear to the DO. There are several reasons for this.
Firstly, if just anybody were allowed to swear and be taken into the DF confidences, there would be no more DF. They would have been uncovered by spies for the Light. The same would hold true for the Black Ajah. If any Sister just said, "I want to be Black Ajah. I'm yours Shai'tan." Some Black sister appears and says "You want to be Black Ajah?" and simply gets fried for being a DF, or sheilded. Or some other trap. The fact is that ther has to be some active, selective recruitment process going on for both.
Secondly, how would somebody know what they were supposed to say. There is no real "oath" that lets them find you. They have to find you, then you swear, or you die. Or there is a pattern.
I do see a pattern. The Keeper for Elaida is Black Ajah. There is a VERY good chance that Egwene's Keeper is Black Ajah. Neither of the Keepers was chosen by the Amyrlin Seat, but by others, who may have had influence from the Black Ajah. In Randland, everything must be suspect. Leane was the Keeper for Siuan. She may or may not have lied to Mat, but, i personally think she was accepted back by the SAS sisters too quickly and easily. I think she may be Black Ajah. This would hold true with some methods used by the minions of Shai'tan. Being near power and being able to effect it, and observe what is going on, but not actually weilding the power. They have had 3000 years to perfect their techniques. This leads me to believe that all Keepers are Black Ajah.
I seriously doubt that the whole, swearing oaths idea, is working well. However, if somebody can convince me of a way for this to work, ill be more than willing to listen.
a dragonburned fool: 2004-06-04
There are both some positive reasons for assuming that swearing to DO means something special and that DF become some information only by that, and some negative reasons against the explanation of DF-recruiting by active recruiting policy.
1. DO's attention can be really attracted, and DO replies:
Saying DO's name really attracts his attention. It is explicitely said in the books. When Rand says it, he immediately feels something. This something is dim, but it is a fact. I.e. DO answers in some limited manner.
Rand mentions DO's name expressing his opposition. Silly ones like that Coplin mention that name maybe thinking they are just cursing a little bit more saucy then by using words like "bloody". DO listens both and has reply. It is very likely that DO senses also the feelings of the person who named him, the feelings assotiated with the name. And DO reacts accordingly.
Now, if one who wants to become Darkfriend just mentions the name assotiated with feelings of agreement and readyness to serve, the DO will sense it and it's likely, that it would be even easier for him to reply then to one attempting to oppose him or to one who doesn't matter really about him. The feelings that the cndidate DF will have will be exciting for him. And maybe they will give him something more. If this DF tries more times to call DO, he could even become some promordial limited information, as clues how to identify he/she is called by DO, directly or via another DF, and how to identify indirect commands to him.
There is definitely something special feeled when a DF mentions DO's name. The DF feel that it is a blasphemy to do it. DF are usually ones who already made some blasphemies against the Light, so they have no scrupples and they usually look to break the rules if possible to remain unnoticed. But they regard it to be blasphemy even when they are alone with themselves, so they know, there is something very real in mentioning this name. And why not, they have experience about it after all, they know that something special happens by mentioning DO's name by their own experience.
2. DF-s are connected to DO in permanent mode, and this connection is something objective.
The evidence is Fain's unique ability to sense DF-s. It's unique about that Fain's ability, but he has the ability, therefore there is something to be sensed. Something different from non-DF. And as Fain doesn't read thoughts, it must be something non-subjective. It must be something as objective as channelling ability, for to be sensed by one who is not in the heart of the Shadow. Note, TP cannot be sensed from outside, it's DO's proprietary feature. But DF-ability can be sensed form outside, so it is more open then TP-channelling.
Fain can sense not only those who already sweared, but also those who only intend to do so. So not the oath is what is decisive here. IMO the DF's oath is only the end, the completing the process of becoming DF. One who intends mentions DO's name with appropriate feeling, becomes reply, recovers from the shoc, mentions it again, becomes more "revelation", and so on until from the "revelations" he/she is ready to identify the commands for him/her. Once the commands can be identified, another DF can be send to him/her with most concrete instuctions. Including how to do the final oath.
If Fain can sense this from outside, why Ishamael cannot sense it from inside. Common DF and BA is normal not to sense anything about each other, it is good for conspiracy. From PoV-s of DF-s we see, they know very few about each other and most usually they only become messages by strange ways. Forsakens, when they need a DF, act in very different way: they come somewhere and immediately find the needed ones and use them. Their PoV-s reveal them having no problems at all with identifying DF-s. I guess, all the Chosen are granted with the ability to identify Darkfriends similar to the one, Fain has.
3. Alignment to Shadow has something to do with "opening" oneself to.
The wording of "opening to" is to be found in Sheriam's explanation about the 13 Myrddraals circle. It can work only on channellers, because the channellers opening to OP makes him open also to something else. This unvoluntary converting to the Shadow is obviously something very different from all the voluntary DF cases, that seem to be the same for channellers and non-channellers. The important is here that the alignment to shadow has something to do with openness to it, and this openness is relative to the openness to OP.
As all serving to Shadow we have seen, is very voluntary, and all the compulsion used by a master like Graendal do not makes the ones to become Darkfriends, this unvoluntary converting will be IMO not Compulsion to that (it is not needed to be channeller for to be compelled, on non-channellers it's even easier), but an extra online link to the DO, extra control, something closer to Mindtrap. I.e. not compulsion, but permanent controlling link. DF obviously are not so controlled, the 13 Myrdraal circle is something more advanced in the result, but it is equated by Sheriam to DFs as alignment to Shadow. IMO DFs also open themselves, and become some control over them directly from DO, but very limited one.
Now something agains the idea of intensive recruiting policy:
1.The hearth system of the BA: every BA knows exactly 3 other BA-s. Only the Head of the black Ajah knows all of them. Alviarin is Head and Keeper, while before Alviarin the Keeper was not a Head of BA for more then 15 years (in the time of Rand's birth, Jarna was the Head of BA, and Alviarin was her immediate successor). So before Alviarin no Keeper or Mistress of Novices or other official with good rank could know enough BA, and a crucial recruiter will know those who are recruited. So where from this recruiting policy to be fulfilled. The Heads only to do it is not so plausible.
2. We have no sign of any recruiting policy in the DF PoVs and other data. Most commonly DF know each other only after the other came with ackreditives and instructions to accept that other. All the DF we have seen yet are passive regarding recruitment. There are lot of data about how one or another decided to become DF, but no a single clue about any recruiting. Even such good position as Galina's seems not to be recruining active, for Katerine didn't know about Galina being BA before the Cairhien expedition. Galina introduced Katerine to the Red Ajah, but Galina didn't recruited her into the BA. If she did, Katerine would know it, but she doesn't.
3. Lack of data about attempts for infiltration of BA-hunter agents. Any secret organization that extensively recruits new members and is known to be dangerous, is prone to infiltration of agents. Non-DF 3Agers are able to organoze such thing. There is no lack of captured DFs and no lack of effective torturing them for knowing something about the methods of recruiting and examining of recruits. Non-DF 3Agers have experience in infiltrating spies. Why there is no information about attempts of agents? Because there was no way to try. If recruiting to DF is made not by seeking DFs who tell you what is what, but by first swearing and then coming to other DFs, there will be no way to infiltrate agents. The recruiting of DFs is not done by natural ways, but by supernatural.
I'm just opened a thread about exactly the same topic in the Message board, where it is easier to discuss.
Mairashda: 2004-06-04
flinn, yes, the current keepers are either darkfriends or controlled by darkfriends. tower law (or was it a custom?) states that the amyrlin alone choses her keeper, so i cannot quite lead myself to believe that every single keeper in history was a darkfriend. while installing one of theirs as keeper (or mistress of novices) must be one of the black ajah's priorities, they have to work very very carefully at achieving this goal.
Callandor: 2004-06-04
**Neither of the Keepers was chosen by the Amyrlin Seat, but by others, who may have had influence from the Black Ajah.**
Actually, both the Amyrlins picked their Keepers. They just had reasons for picking then outside their own.
And there is supposed evidence for Sheriam being Black. There is also a lot of things that don't click for her to be Black.
Flinn Sedai: 2004-06-05
Mairashda-
The best way for the BA to make sure that they have a Keeper in office, is to do one of two things.
1. They could recruit from several "cliques" so as to make sure that they have a friend in with any possible Amyrlin. Then, when a couple of people declare for Amyrlin, the BA agents inside those particular cliques will ingratiate themselves with the potential Amyrlin. This way, the Amyrlin will choose them of their own free will, and yet, still choose BA.
Egwene was an odd case. One the BA had not encountered before. The Amyrlin Seat was announced by the time that they knew, with no way to ingratiate themselves to her. So, they did a rough job of it. As you can see, as soon as Egwene appears, Sheriam starts making friends.
The same happens with Elaida. She tells Alviarin that she wants to be Amyrlin, and Alviarin is right with her from then on.
2. The other way that they could have gotten the Keeper to be BA, is to do what i believe they did with Leane. They simply converted her after she became Keeper. 13 and 13 makes a BA Keeper.
Using these two techniques, they can insure that they have power in the White Tower for as long as it exists.
Callandor: 2004-06-06
**Egwene was an odd case. One the BA had not encountered before. The Amyrlin Seat was announced by the time that they knew, with no way to ingratiate themselves to her. So, they did a rough job of it. As you can see, as soon as Egwene appears, Sheriam starts making friends.**
Hardly. Sheriam starts to control her. The Keeper isn't picked because she is friends with the Amyrlin; after all, the Hall has to decide if the choice is good or not. The Keeper is the most qualified in the views of the Amyrlin and the Hall.
Proof of this is in Sheriam even being picked by Egwene. Sheriam is not her friend; Egwene knows she is trying to control her and make her into no more then a puppet. Some friend.
Flinn Sedai: 2004-10-18
**Hardly. Sheriam starts to control her. The Keeper isn't picked because she is friends with the Amyrlin; after all, the Hall has to decide if the choice is good or not. The Keeper is the most qualified in the views of the Amyrlin and the Hall. **
Perhaps friends was a bad choice of words. What i had intended to say, was that as soon as it was apparent that Egwene might become Amyrlin, Sheriam hustled around trying to show that she was the best suited to be Egwene's Keeper (And no, the irony is not lost on me). She had already been making the big decisions for the SAS, and so was then hardly likely to be objected to by the Hall. When you re-read it with that in mind, it is very hard to miss the fact that she is trying to make herself seem priceless.
evilbeaver: 2004-10-18
I hope someone figures this question out, as I wouldn't mind becoming a darkfriend myself
Callandor: 2004-10-18
**Perhaps friends was a bad choice of words. What i had intended to say, was that as soon as it was apparent that Egwene might become Amyrlin, Sheriam hustled around trying to show that she was the best suited to be Egwene's Keeper (And no, the irony is not lost on me). She had already been making the big decisions for the SAS, and so was then hardly likely to be objected to by the Hall. When you re-read it with that in mind, it is very hard to miss the fact that she is trying to make herself seem priceless.**
Ah, so Sheriam wanting to be a powerful figure, makes her a Darkfriend? Sheriam is being just like Lelaine and Romanda: she sees an opprotunity, and capitalizes on it. She doesn't act like Black Ajah at all, and in fact acts just the opposite (tries to go against her orders, instead of following them).
Jumai: 2004-10-19
"Lady Shiaine" when she's first encountered through the eys of Jaichim Carridin, is said to have found a circle of DFs, and teh quote implies that the finding was an instrumental part of her oath-swearing, and it was not something that Jaichim found unusual.
Now, I am not saying it's impossible to swear to the DO himself from your basement, nor am I saying she was not (indeed she most likely was) guided to the circle very carefully. BUT I imagine most people would feel they need witnesses to their oaths, or someone to swear them to directly.
ilgross: 2004-10-19
I think the idea that all Keepers are dark, probably isn't right.
I would like to propose a way that they recruit Dark Ajah, would be to drag them into the World of Dreams then put them into a dream, where they are approached by the Black Ajah and ask if they will swear. If they do then they will be approched in real life, if not then it can all be placed down to a nightmare.
Obviously only likly candidates would be approched, since they won't want the light catching on to their idea.
Flinn Sedai: 2004-10-19
Callandor-
This is by no means the argument that Sheriam is Black Ajah. There are so many of those going around, and i dont want to get into that debate right now. However, her being Black Ajah is a good probability, and would help to prove my pattern.