ho was Fain expecting?
by scope: 2004-12-04 | 5 out of 10 (3 votes)
Previous Categories: Padan Fain
Fain stood. ‘You! Not who I was expecting' TGH p81
RJ has confirmed that he was freed by Ingtar, which came as a surprise to Fain, so who was Fain expecting?
I believe that Fain could sense that one of the Forsaken had come to Fal Dara, and was therefore waiting for one of them to come and either free or kill him. More specifically this Forsaken had arrived with the Amrylin Seats party, and was probably masquerading as one of the Aes Sedai that accompanied her.
A couple of quotes
‘You can't hide, not from me and not from them. You thought it was over, did you not? But the battle's never done al'Thor. They are coming for me, and they're coming for you and the war goes on. Whether you live or die, it's never over for you. Never.' TGH p43
and
‘If the stone weren't there, he'd be looking straight at the women's apartments' where Moiraine is, and the Amrylin Seat.'
Rand assumes that Fain is talking about the Aes Sedai because that is the worry that is foremost in his mind. However how would Fain be sensing their presence, he was ‘changed' by Ishmael to search for Rand, not for Aes Sedai. Indeed when he goes to retrieve the dagger from Tar Valon he doesn't notice that Alviarin is approaching and she captures him with ease.
‘He licked at a splash of blood on his hand and giggled as he picked up the sheath.'
“You are a fool”
‘He spun, dagger reaching, but the air around him seemed to turn solid, encasing him from neck to the sole of his boot.' TFoH p327
This to me leaves three further ‘things' that Fain could be sensing.
- a fade (or trolloc) This is extremely unlikely, the gates of the keep weren't opened until later
- Matt's dagger. It is possible that Fain can sense the dagger through the stones of his cell, it is almost a part of him and he takes risks to get it back. However the ‘call' of the dagger wouldn't explain his words ‘You can't hide, not from me and not from them'. Also it is unlikely that Matt, who was only recently in a cellar playing at dice, would then go and spend some time in the women's apartments. (He could be in a room in between, but I'm disregarding that possibility, hey it's my theory!)
- A darkfriend / darkfriends. Fain may have the ability to sense those who have sworn to the DO at this point, however, would he then have been so surprised to be freed by Ingtar, who he had been in close proximity with before.
So this, to me, just leaves one possibility. Fain can sense one of the Chosen. It makes sense that one of the ways that he would have been changed would have been to give him a homing sense, to report his findings to Ishmael or one of the other Forsaken. What's the point of having a hound if it gets lost on the way home.
This would also explain the death sentence put on Fain by the Chosen and why Slayer / Isam is still under orders to kill him in WH. Not only is he messing with their plans he also has the ability to sense Chosen, whatever their disguise. In fact he could be the ultimate weapon against them, if only he wasn't so obsessed with Rand.
As to the identity of the Forsaken in Fal Dara. Well there were two Brown sisters with the party.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2005-02-05
We know the forsaken escaped about that time; you could have specifically pointed at Lanfear, since she shows up a few chapters later in a window where Rand sees her (IIRC). Lanfear could very well have been there; however, it is likely that Fain was looking towards the dagger because by this time he was obsessed beyond reason after being possessed by Mordeth. Likely, Fain did believe he was important enough that a high ranking individual would come to save him, so he was surprised by Ingtar, not someone he was expecting, but I don't believe this tells us anything beyond Lanfear's potential obsession with Rand. Was Ingtar working for Lanfear or for Ishamael? Was it Ishamael who wanted to free Fain? Interesting topic.
2
Dorindha: 2005-02-05
I too think he was staring towards the dagger - it doesn't have to be relevant to what he was saying as he couldn't help his attachment to it, and it was subconscious.
This is an interesting topic though - it could be jsut that he was surprised it was Ingtar - it was Ingtar that brought the news of his capture to Agelmar, so maybe there is some history between him and Fain.
3
Great Lord of the Dark: 2005-02-06
I don't know if Fain could sense Darkfriends back then, but he sure could now. You touch on an interesting truth, that Fain could see through any Forsaken disguise. Too bad he isn't interacting with any suspects at present.
4
Anubis: 2005-02-07
Correct me if im wrong... *cough* Callandor *cough*... but wasnt Rand hiding in the womens appartments at that point?
I believe Fain says (upon seeing ingtar) "not who i expected, oh well* or something to that effect. I take this to mean that he expected some sort of rescue but did not expect it from a high ranking Shinerian Lord. Thats all.
5
Callandor: 2005-02-08
**Correct me if im wrong... *cough* Callandor *cough*... but wasnt Rand hiding in the womens appartments at that point?**
What did I do? :)
Yes, Rand was in Egwene's apparment in Shinear before he went to see Fain's prison cell.
6
Anubis: 2005-02-08
ergo Fain was simply staring at Rand. The Aes Sedai in their arrogance simply assumed it was at the Amryllin.
7
scope: 2005-02-08
**ergo Fain was simply staring at Rand. The Aes Sedai in their arrogance simply assumed it was at the Amryllin.**
He was actually talking to Rand in his cell when he looked up in the direction of the women's apartments. The quote is from Rand's pov.
**I too think he was staring towards the dagger - it doesn't have to be relevant to what he was saying as he couldn't help his attachment to it, and it was subconscious**
I agree about Fain's attachment and growing obsession about the dagger, but why would Mat go from dicing in a storeroom to spend some time in the womens appartments?
**you could have specifically pointed at Lanfear**
I have my suspicions that Mesaana has a far more important role in directing the events of the first two books then Lanfear. I was convinced by a theory over at Wotmania which pretty much said Mesaana = Selene. It's called the longest theory, I highly recomend it.
8
Anubis: 2005-02-08
Alrite, lets discuss chronoligy. Callandor feel FREE to correct me as I suck at chronoligy.
Events in order:
1. Rand hides in womens appartments.
2. Fain stares at womens appartments.
3. Rand visits Fain.
4. Someone comments that Fain was looking at the womens appartments.
The point is that Rand was in the appartments while Fain was staring at them.
9
Callandor: 2005-02-08
Ok, since people wanted quotes instead of going with sequences....
**TITLE: Great Hunt
CHAPTER: 6 - Dark Prophecy
Nynaeve lowered her knitting and gave him an amused smile. She was a pretty woman. That was something he would never have noticed back home; one just did not think of. a Wisdom that way. "The Light help me, Rand, you are becoming more Shienaran every day. ~Invited into the women's apartments, indeed."~ She sniffed. "Any day now, you'll start talking about your honor, and asking peace to favor your sword." He colored, and hoped she did not notice in the dim light. She eyed his sword, its hilt sticking out of the long bundle beside him on the floor. He knew she did not approve of the sword, of any sword, but she said nothing about it for once. ~"Egwene told me why you need a place to hide. Don't worry. We will keep you hidden from the Amyrlin, or from any other Aes Sedai, if that is what you want."~**
This is from the chapter where Rand goes to Fain's cell and sees that he has broken free, and sees the Dark Prophecy.
**TITLE: Great Hunt
CHAPTER: 5 - The Shadow in Shienar
As a lamp came into the cell chamber, Fain raised his head, grinning at something, unseen yet felt, beyond the dungeon's stone ceiling. "It isn't over yet," he whispered. "The battle's never over."**
And this is the chapter beforehand when Fain is let out. And uses the same phrases that he used to Rand to taunt him when he came to see Fain with Egwene (and then Fain showed his ability to sense Rand).
10
scope: 2005-02-09
Chronology:
1- Rand and Egwene visit Fain TGH p42-43. Quote.
"What is he seeing, I wonder. He's mad, staring at a stone ceiling in the dark" ‘If the stone weren't there, he'd be looking straight at the women's apartments' where Moiraine is, and the Amrylin Seat'. He shivered again. "He's mad." Rand speaking.
"This was not a good idea Rand." Egwene speaking
2- Rand goes and hides in the womens appartments after this.
11
Anubis: 2005-02-09
I can either reread TGH or believe Callandor. Seeing as im lazy and they pretty much ammount to the same thing, im going to believe Callandor.
12
NargsBrood: 2005-02-20
scope said:
Chronology:
1- Rand and Egwene visit Fain TGH p42-43. Quote.
"What is he seeing, I wonder. He's mad, staring at a stone ceiling in the dark" ‘If the stone weren't there, he'd be looking straight at the women's apartments' where Moiraine is, and the Amrylin Seat'. He shivered again. "He's mad." Rand speaking.
"This was not a good idea Rand." Egwene speaking
2- Rand goes and hides in the womens appartments after this.
Callandor is absolutely wrong. How scope describes it is exactly how it happened.
13
NargsBrood: 2005-02-20
Scope, I think you are right with this theory. It is all very credible.
14
Callandor: 2005-02-20
**Callandor is absolutely wrong. How scope describes it is exactly how it happened.**
Well, thank you for being so blunt. However, if you look futher into The Great Hunt, the part I quote happens exactly as I said. scope was simply being unspecific.
15
Topaz Ashaman: 2005-02-21
I think I have to agree with Anubis. Fain was more than likely expecting some sort of rescue, just not form Ingtar. He may have just been adding a little bravura to hide the fact that he's totally insane and captured.I.e. "Ah Mr. Ingtar, I wasn't expecting you, would you care for a glass of port? No?Well then lets be off shall we, I fear the accomodations of this cell are loosing their appeal."
And IIRC at that point Fain had still been a good little Darkfriend as far as the Chosen know, so Ingtar really didn't have to be working for anyone. He may have just recognized Fain as a friend of the dark in high standing and turned him loose.
16
pradeepraj: 2012-11-06
What about compulsion? The Dark One is the Master of Compulsion, no? Just a thought people! So exciting to be talking about these things... anticipation is amazing.. yet... A Memory of Light - can't wait. Where can I pre-order the book?
