oridin is a human Incarnation of the Dark One and Shaidar Haran is Moridin's Myrddraal form
by tex: 2004-07-22 | 3 out of 10 (4 votes)
Moridin is a human Incarnation of the Dark One for unlike any other character he is able to reach the True Source which comes directly from the dark one. Moridin remembers the Age of Legends better then the current age,(Example: he calls Rand Lews Theron and the people of the Third age ‘rustics') However he does not seem to have been anyone during the Age of Legends(Example: Other that the Forsaken, the Dark One is the only one who has not been around since the Age of Legends. Since Dark One was last able to touch the world in the Age of Legends and would not know anything that happened since so it may be possible that Moridin has some of the Dark Ones own memories. Moridin has a way of communicating with the Dark One the Chosen do not have. The Chosen had lead the Darkfriends and Black Ajah since they escaped, but now he takes over the Chosen and orders them around. Besides he is chosen as Nae'blis over even the Chosen themselves.
I believe Shaidar Haran is Moridin's Myrddraal form In Crown of Swords (chapter 25) Moghedien, another Chosen calls Shaidar Haran “Mia'cova” which meant my owner. Shaidar Haran had taught her to say that then when she meets Moridin in human form she calls him “Mia'cova” and transfers the obedience Shaidar taught her to him. Therefore they are the same.
If he is also Shaidar Haran(Path of Dagger's chap.12) which is a possibility since SH tells Moridin and still demands that he (SH) be considered the Voice and Hand of the Dark One. In Crossroads of Twilight chapter 21 Shaidar Haran punishes Mesaana the Chosen, something only Moridin and has been able to do since then.
You cannot rate theories without first logging in. Please
log in.
1
Tamyrlin: 2004-10-22
(Frenzy for Tamyrlin)
Nice try Tex, but no, and here's why:
Moridin is a human. Path of Daggers CHAPTER: 2 - Unweaving: From behind a screen of white wrought iron, Moridin watched the last of the horses vanish through the gateway, and then the tall young woman and the four Warders. ***It was possible they were carrying away some item he could use—an angreal attuned to men***, perhaps—but the chances were small.
and although he doesn't fear death, it's a possibility. Path of Daggers CHAPTER: 2 - Unweaving: Nothing would make a gateway behave that way. Unless. . . . Could she actually have unraveled the web? Death held no fear for him. Coldly he considered the possibility that he had been within sight of an unraveling web. One that had been unmade successfully.
Moridin has Ishamael's delusions of grandeur
Winter's Heart CHAPTER: 13 - Wonderful News: "The Great Lord is sure you are all faithful," Moridin announced, striding in as though he were the Great Lord of the Dark himself. ***He had often seemed to believe he was, and the boy's face he wore now had not changed that.*** In spite of his words, that face was grim, and his unrelieved black made his name, Death, fit. "You need not worry until he stops being sure." The girl, Cyndane, trotted at his heels like a bosomy little silver-haired pet in red-and-black. For some reason, Moridin had a rat riding his shoulder, pale nose sniffing the air, black eyes studying the room warily. Or for no reason, perhaps. ***A youthful face had not made him any saner, either.***
Moghedien called Shaidar Haran, and subsequently Moridin, mia'cova because they held her Mindtrap, and whoever held her mindtrap was her owner.
Shaidar Haran punishes Mesaana after he says Shaidar Haran is more than just a name. I'd recommend you re-read that scene, and then decide who Shaidar Haran really is.
2
Callandor: 2004-10-22
**Moridin is a human Incarnation of the Dark One for unlike any other character he is able to reach the True Source which comes directly from the dark one.**
False.
1. Ishamael (who Moridin actualy is, just transmigrated) was a True Power addict (he uses it in the first scene! "I follow a ~different power now.~")
2. Demandred has used the True Power, only at great need.
3. Moghedien has the ability to draw on the True Power, she is just utterly terrorfied of it.
**Moridin remembers the Age of Legends better then the current age,(Example: he calls Rand Lews Theron and the people of the Third age ‘rustics') However he does not seem to have been anyone during the Age of Legends**
He is Ishamael transmigrated by the Dark One. Ishamael lived in the Aol, and had many dealings with Lews Therin.
**Since Dark One was last able to touch the world in the Age of Legends and would not know anything that happened since so it may be possible that Moridin has some of the Dark Ones own memories.**
Who says the Dark One knows nothing of the world since the AoL?? He knows a lot about this world now.
**Moridin has a way of communicating with the Dark One the Chosen do not have.**
Proof of this??
**The Chosen had lead the Darkfriends and Black Ajah since they escaped, but now he takes over the Chosen and orders them around. Besides he is chosen as Nae'blis over even the Chosen themselves**
Yep, but he is Ishamael transmigrated, and raised Nae'blis; not the Dark One made human.
**I believe Shaidar Haran is Moridin's Myrddraal form In Crown of Swords (chapter 25) Moghedien, another Chosen calls Shaidar Haran “Mia'cova” which meant my owner. Shaidar Haran had taught her to say that then when she meets Moridin in human form she calls him “Mia'cova” and transfers the obedience Shaidar taught her to him. Therefore they are the same.**
Frenzy explained this part already.
**If he is also Shaidar Haran**
He's not. We've had Shaidar Haran's POV (once) and we have had Moridin's POV (2 times; an additional once as the Watcher). They are nothing a like, at all, other then they both call the Dark One, the Great Lord.
3
charliec: 2004-10-23
There is little question that Shadar Haran and Moridin are separate entities. Moghedien calls them both 'owner' because they both have absolute power over her.
There isn't even much room for doubt that Moridin is Ishamael returned.
The extent to which Shadar Haran is the Dark One's 'hand' is more questionable, as is his standing in comparison to Moridin...
4
Flinn Sedai: 2004-10-23
I am surprised you let this one get posted.
5
: 2004-10-25
Flinn, if all that got posted was stuff that was "right" or not controversial or stuff I agree with, this forum would be useless. After all, your "Two lives, two times, two Dragons in another's head" theory wouldn't have met those criteria. Sophistry is allowed in here. Heck, at this stage of the game you might say it's encouraged.
6
Frenzy: 2004-10-25
oops, that rant was mine. Thought i logged in to spew it. oops.
7
Sampson: 2004-10-25
Dude, I do not know what you were thinking when you wrote this, but I will give you credit for having the balls to submit it. You should know that the cats that post theories here would slice this apart. Besides, you're wrong about everything.
Moridin = Ishamael, He is the man for the Dark Side.
Shaidar Haran = unusual Myrddraal, He has more power and influence than any Myrddraal before. The Dark One hooked him up. He wants to find away to sever the tie that forces him to return to Shayol Ghul every now and then.
8
Father Time: 2004-10-26
Since the identity of Shaidar Haran has been called into question there is something that has always bothered me and that should have been used to support tex's theory.
Why does Shaidar Harans black cloak move? We have evidence of only one other myrddraal whose cloak moves and that is the one that appears at the White Cloak's headquarters to a known darkfriend. All other neverborn have cloaks that never move, regardless of what the myrddraal is doing (riding a horse, jumping, etc.).
I ask this because I recall Rand in The Eye of The World using the test of the wind rustling a horse riders cloak as a test of being one of the eyeless. This test fails when applied to Shaidar Haran.
Interested to know if anyone has worked this out. I haven't.
9
Mad Tinker: 2004-10-27
"I ask this because I recall Rand in The Eye of The World using the test of the wind rustling a horse riders cloak as a test of being one of the eyeless. This test fails when applied to Shaidar Haran."
At what point did Rand do this in EOTW? Do you have a quote or page reference? As I remember, in the first book Rand was still in awe of Fades.
10
charliec: 2004-10-27
Hmm. Halfmen's coats don't get moved by the wind... but obviously they must move in other circumstances, or they'd just be like a solid cast down the fade's back!
11
Anubis: 2004-11-01
i think that the cloaks just do not move enough. theres little visual ques that you cant really explain and the fades lack a few of these. in our mind wind makes things move. if there were say... a tree that wasnt moving, that would be incredibly wierd. likewise, if the tree just did not move enough, if it did not move as much as the other trees your average person would probably think somthing was odd, but not be able to place their finger on it. that is the case with the fades IMHO. you dont really notice that their cloak is not moving enough, something just bothers you. only when you devote attention to the cloak itself do you realize that it is... well... out of synch with time and space. (watch donnie darko, its a good example of certian things being sped up and slowed down to create a surreal affect).... and a really good movie
12
greyfalconway: 2004-11-07
Moridin is Ishamael reborn like lanfear is cyndane and stuff...right? he also wears all black and he was wearing all black in the prologue for EotW, and hes full of himself...they all are..but yeah...ishamael was supposed to be almost nae'blis anyways... everything says theyre the same guy..er.. soul..person
13
Noal Charin: 2004-11-11
Moridin is Ishameal.
14
mazrimashaman: 2005-04-07
this already been said, I must say morridin is simply nae blis, he is not the do flesh, he is simply "closer" to the dark one than any one else
