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Seanchan knows where Tuon is...

by molec: 2003-09-23 | Not yet rated

Previous Categories: The Seanchan

We read in CoT that Deathwatch Guard banner-general Furyk Karede is told by Seeker Almurat Mor about a sighting of Tuon north of the city.

This is from Karede's POV, listening to the Seeker (pg 157): ' "This came to us in the last few days." ... "It began among the local people, as near as we can tell, though we have not yet found the original source. Supposedly, a girl with a Seandar accent has been extorting gold and jewelry from merchants here in Ebou Dar. The title Daughter of the Nine Moons was mentioned." ... "None of the locals seem to understand what this title means, but the description of the girl is remarkably precise. Remarkably accurate. And no one can recall hearing this rumor before the night after Tylin's murder was discovered." '

Generally, Karede's non-commited reply to this story is "This gives me a great deal to think on."

We are told, from Karede's own POV earlier in this chapter, that Karede is very sensitive to accusations of treason within the Deathwatch Guard. Knowing this trait within the DG, the Seeker goes on, implicating the Deathwatch Guard in the supposed extortions, likely to convince Karede to commit to a search based upon this lead.

' "Whatever you choose to do, you should know this. You may wonder how the girl extorted anything from these merchants. It seems two or three soldiers always accompanied her. The description of their armor was also very precise." He half stretched out a hand as though to touch Karede's robe, but wisely let it fall back to his side. "Most people call that black. You understand me? Whatever you choose, do not delay." '

We readers can clearly tell that, although this is clearly a reference to Tuon ('the girl'), Tuon has not extorted gold or jewelry from any local merchants. So, either the Seeker does not know that the story is false, or is lying to get Karede to search for Tuon. Either way, the Seeker has sent Karede off to find Tuon toward the north based upon a story that is bogus.

How does the Seeker get his information? He (and all of the Seekers) is property of the Crystal Throne and takes orders from Suroth directly. One possibility is that He is ordered, likely by Suroth, to tell this bogus story to Karede. The other possibility is that he, and possibly together with other Seekers, are inducing Karede to search based upon other knowledge that they have on Tuon's whereabouts. So, either Suroth or the Seekers know where Tuon can be found.

How do either one of these parties know where she is, or the circumstances of her disapperance? First lets examine the Seekers. We do not have any evidence that the Seekers have any knowledge of Tuon's whereabouts, but they may certainly be capable of lying about it, even to a DG banner-general. We know that a yellow-haired Seeker, precisely matching Mor's description, told sul'dam Bethamin to spy on Egeanin. Of course, this lead to Egeanin, Bethamin, Renna and Seta fleeing Ebou Dar with Mat and company. If Mor is the one who is lying on his own, he has obviously discovered this group missing and has connected it with Tuon's disappearance somehow. He might consider Tuon to now be involved in the matter that he is investigating with regard to Suroth. Remember that Mor suspects Suroth of: 1) uncollared Aes Sedai damane, 2) hiding marath'damane among her property and 3) being a danger to the Empire (WH, pg 417). Mor might be acting on his own to further the investigatation of the conspiracy.

Now lets turn our attention to Suroth. Could Suroth know where Tuon is, and possibly her circumstances? I believe that Tuon's smiling may play a role to end this logical mystery. Tuon might have known that she would be captured, likely by whom, and likely where they would be going. She likely learned of this from Lidya, who read Tuon's fortune just before they arrived in Ebou Dar harbor. Tuon thinks to herself, "...and if any of the blood had heard, they would all be chattering behind their hands about her fate. (WH, pg 327)" Tuon told Suroth of these events which would occur, and possibly to allow them to occur to a certain point. When Mat decided to bring Tuon along, and effectively kidnap her, Tuon had known this would happen and "...smiled as she suddenly knew a secret."

Interestingly, Tuon never tries to escape from Mat, despite the fact that she could have easily on many occasions. She is also clearly liking her position with Toy, I mean Mat, as she is wearing his gift of silk rosebuds, while at the same time putting his name at the top of the list of those not under her protection. Tuon is not worried that she is in any danger, possibly because she has told Suroth where she will be and therefore does not feel as though she is in danger.

The last evidence implicating Suroth, and what initially triggered this theory, is the second to last line in CoT. The embassy of Bashere and Logain were sent to Suroth by Rand, and they returned saying, "Apparently a member of their royal family has arrived. Suroth wants you to meet someone called the Daughter of the Nine Moons." Ah ha! Supposedly Tuon is missing, but Suroth arranges a meeting between she and Rand? Busted!

In conclusion, the hard evidence of this theory makes it clear that either Suroth or the Seekers knows Tuon's whereabouts and lied to get the DG to search for her. Up for debate is whether Suroth or the Seeker is behind the lie. I can only hope that the comments stemming from this fact will be varied and interesting...
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2003-09-27

First, I think Suroth, since she is a darkfriend and most likely working with Semirhage, is setting the Dragon Reborn up, since she has the male a'dam (e've). Telling them that she would like Rand to meet Tuon is just part of the act that she has had to keep up since Tuon went missing, so I don't think it is likely that Tuon and Suroth set this up. Also, I would suggest that the Seeker is a dark friend sent by Semirhage to get the DG to look for Tuon, since Tuon is her responsibility. Jordan focuses on this area throughout the book, so we are probably missing a few clues.

2

Callandor: 2003-09-27

**How does the Seeker get his information? He (and all of the Seekers) is property of the Crystal Throne and takes orders from Suroth directly. One possibility is that He is ordered, likely by Suroth, to tell this bogus story to Karede. The other possibility is that he, and possibly together with other Seekers, are inducing Karede to search based upon other knowledge that they have on Tuon's whereabouts. So, either Suroth or the Seekers know where Tuon can be found.**

Seekers take orders from the Empress, they have almost total free reign, but if they are wrong they are killed if it is a high enough crime they say someone did (like the Blood killing someone and being wrong).

Suroth doesn't control the Seekers, she has ordered one killed a day that they don't find Tuon (big reference to why she doesn't know where Tuon is), but personally commanding them to do some tasks would be getting too far ahead of herself, and the Seanchan despise that.

**Tuon told Suroth of these events which would occur, and possibly to allow them to occur to a certain point. When Mat decided to bring Tuon along, and effectively kidnap her, Tuon had known this would happen and "...smiled as she suddenly knew a secret."**

No. You killed this line with your own quote:

**Tuon thinks to herself, "...and if any of the blood had heard, they would all be chattering behind their hands about her fate. (WH, pg 327)"**

She doesn't want ANY of the Blood to know, so why the heck would she tell Suroth?

**The last evidence implicating Suroth, and what initially triggered this theory, is the second to last line in CoT. The embassy of Bashere and Logain were sent to Suroth by Rand, and they returned saying, "Apparently a member of their royal family has arrived. Suroth wants you to meet someone called the Daughter of the Nine Moons." Ah ha! Supposedly Tuon is missing, but Suroth arranges a meeting between she and Rand? Busted!**

This is what I don't understand: Why does everyone seem to think Mat and Tuon will go back to Ebou Dar right away or are already there and this is a "timing trick"? Granted, they may eventually go back there if they are needed to free Rand from a possible trap, but not right away. Suroth is lying; what an idea. She wants the Dragon, as per Ishamael/Moridin's current orders most likely, and will do anything to get him. She doesn't need Tuon to actually be there, it would help but she doesn't need her to be there, she just needs Rand to be lured into a trap and she has a good chance of getting him.

The Seeker is hitting close to the truth but he is still wrong. He wants Tuon back, and knows the Deathwatch Guards stand the best chance of returning her.

And yes, it is the same Seeker seen in TSR, WH, and CoT.

3

Deadsy: 2003-09-27

Suroth has no power over the Seekers. They only answer to the Empress and perhaps some members of her family. Turak talks about it in tGH. They can question any member of the Blood.

The Seekers know where the kidnappers are headed because it's their job to find things out and they can question anyone. All they had to do was question the der'sul'dam who saw Egeanin, Renna, and Tessi/Teslyn. Then all they had to do was check all the gates out of the city:

“Anyone was free to leave the city when they wished, but the Seanchan recorded the movement of damane “

Mors says “They went north, and Jehannah was mentioned in the palace stables, but that seems an obvious attempt at deception. They will have changed direction at the first oppor­tunity.” And Karede guestimates about which way they are going.

Also, Karede already knows about the girl extorting money:

"A Seandar accent," Karede said in a flat voice, and Mor nod­ded. "This rumor has passed to our own people." That was not a question, but Mor nodded again. A Seandar accent and an accurate description, two things no local could invent. Someone was playing a very dangerous game. Dangerous for themselves, and for the Empire.”

The way he thinks and talks implies to me that he thinks this “girl” is an imposter.

And Tuon doesn't trust Suroth:

“'When we are ashore,' she said, ‘the High Lady Suroth must be commended.' Hold to your chosen course. ‘And her ambition must be looked into. She has done more with the Forerunners than the Empress, may she live forever, dreamed of, but success on such a scale often breeds ambitions to match.'

Peeved at the change of subject, Anath drew herself up, lips compressing. Her eyes glittered. ‘I am sure Suroth has only the best interests of the Empire for ambition,' she said curtly.

Tuon nodded. She herself was not sure at all.”

I don't think she would tell Suroth or anyone about what Lidya foretold. She didn't tell her Truthspeaker. In my opinion, Mors supports the Empress and Tuon, and is suspicious that Suroth is doing something treasonous. He also suspects some people in the DWG so he has to try to find someone he might be able to trust, so he goes to Karede because he remembers his past dedication to Tuon. After talking about Tuon, he tells Karede about Egeanin and possibly Suroth's involvement with Aes Sedai. It doesn't sound like something someone sent by Suroth would say.

I think Tuon is acting completely on her own. I don't know if she knew about the kidnapping but she knew something would happen. It was Tuon who insisted that Tylin take the trip with Suroth to look at Altara.. and that conveniently got her away from Mat so Tuon could stalk him.

4

Rhodric: 2003-09-28

i think we can trust Almurat Mor, the seeker. I believe he is acting independent of Suroth's orders - going renegade, sorta. Mor seems to be going on incomplete information that he probably found himself, but the conspiracy theory he has come up with has missed the mark because he doesn't know all the facts.

Mor pointed Kadere in that direction to find Tuon not because Mor is a DF, but because that's the false info that was leaked to him (by suroth?...)

IMO this is Suroth sending away Kadere and the other few DW guards who are 100% loyal to Tuon. she has done this by getting false info about Tuon's whereabouts to Mor, and slyly prompting him to tell Kadere about this. thus sending Kadere and co. away from the imminent betrayal to Tuon, by having someone impersonate her.

5

Caramoor: 2003-09-29

The knowing grin that Tuon has is a result of the reading a damane gave her before her arrival in Ebou Dar. The only thing we are told about is that she will be kidnapped and the damane is subsequently beaten. There may be more to her reading that we weren't told, thus she knows what the outcome will be.

And seekers serve only the Crystal Throne. If Suroth tried to order them to do anything, she would likely be taken back to Seandar and put in the Tower of Ravens.

6

Murrin: 2003-09-30

I think that the only people who know of Lidya's fortune telling are Tuon, Selucia (at least part), and Lidya. The reason I suspect Selucia knows is that in CoT, when Tuon asks Mat if he remembers Hawkwing's face, Selucia frowns at Mat (she doesn't seem to find the question strange, just who Tuon is asking it).

Mor is still following this fantastical story of treason he has put together, and does not know any more than he claims. He seriously believes that Suroth has been dealing with the White Tower and that this is all part of some plot with them. Furyk is not entirely convinced, but he thinks it may be true, which is why he started the search (he wouldn't have if they still thought it was to do with the succession).

The girl in Ebou Dar could possibly be Semirhage, trying to cover up her failure by being seen around disguised as Tuon, so that people still believe she is hiding somewhere around Ebou Dar.

About Tuons kidnapping, however - I believe that Tuon wanted to be taken. She turns up on the night Mat is going to leave, in the place Mat is meeting the others, and that cannot be coincedence. It is obvious in WH that Tuon likes Mat, and we see when she tries to fight him that she enjoys it until Noal grabs her - she doesn't struggle or shout until then, so obviously she was expecting everything up to that. She also smiles when he says she is going with them, and there are several mentions of her being calm, smiling like she knows something, and not giving an alarm when she had the chance, all making it seem as though she wants to stay with Mat.

Of course, giving Luca those papers at the end is going to announce her presence up the full length of Altara to whoever is paying attention...

7

jofra: 2003-09-30

I dont recall any reference to Tuon being seen north of Ebou Dar. Mor has found out from the Gate guards where Egeanin and party left.

There is no way Tuon would tell Suroth or Anath of her fortune being told or what it is.

Mor has been completely wrong about Suroth dealing with the WT from the first time he was introduced in WoT. However wrong he is, its our good fortune that he has Suroth under suspicion!

IMO, Suroth or Anath have set up the false DotNM as a reason to get those completely dedicated to Tuon out of the city in order to use the imposter to deal with Rand. If Rand has any sense, he will insist on the meeting in neutral ground.

In any case, I believe that once Rand is collared, alarm bells in the guise of the swirling colors {showing Rand collared}, will reach both Mat and Perrin and they will both show up at the meeting. Perrin will chop off the hand of whoever is wearing the bracelet and Rand will bind the Nine Moons to him, in order to fight the Dark Forces.

With this scenario, it would imply that the meeting will be taking place sometime later than the present time line, after other problems are dealt with, ie Egwene and Perrin, Elayne and Ituralde and Moiraine.

Let us hope the meeting will occur at least by the end of Book 11!