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amane have free will!

by Aelfinn: 2003-11-29 | Not yet rated

Previous Categories: The Seanchan

I think that the damane DO have free will, and that the a'dam can't control their mind. To me, a'dam are [for this purpose] just like a quick, simple, easy way to torture somebody without physically harming them.

And we ALL know that you can break somebody's will to do anything by plenty of means, no One Power involved. Brainwashing doesn't use a ter'angreal, it uses telling somebody something over and over until they believe it. If you know what to do, you can break someone pretty easily (see Moghedien; I don't think all of her willingness to be stepped on was entirely the cour'souvra!).

Damane have had the free will beaten out of them by plenty of means. (One: just saying over and over and over that they need to be leashed until they do believe it - the damane Rand tried to free after LoC or somewhere abouts.) You could get the same effect by dragging them in a torture chamber 24/7, except if they were physically in deep pain for ages afterwards, they wouldn't be so quick to accept rewards. Using an a'dam, the sul'dam can make her prisoner feel anything: from being in boiling water to being swatted multiple times to so on. Also, since it's entirely in her mind (not like using Air, which is like taking an invisible stick or whatever), the pain disappears as soon as the sul'dam stops it; only the memory is left.

Call me crazy, but I think the sul'dam have no REAL control over damane. They can't automatically make one do this or go there or whatever, they can only make her WANT to (if she isn't already broken). Think about it, if someone kept sticking a red-hot needle into you until you went somewhere, would you be as likely to resist?

Damane can think whatever they want; only thing is, they can't always do stuff if they think certain things (TGH: Egwene not being able to get her own water until she convinced herself she would never hurt a sul'dam). Their minds are free, but a sul'dam can make a damane's body 'freeze up', so to speak, if she doesn't want the damane to do something.

Feel free to say anything about that.

I HATE SUL'DAM, A'DAM, AND ANYONE BEING MAKE DAMANE! SLAVERY IS THE DARK ONE'S BIGGEST VICTORY, AND THE WORSTEST EVIL AS WELL!

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Comments

Tamyrlin: 2003-12-16

Frenzy for Tamyrlin

An interesting idea, but i can't say i agree with it. Yes, damane aren't mindless automatons and yes, they are in control of their thoughts. But they lack the ability to freely act on their own thoughts, so to say that they have free will depends on your definition of free will.<BR>
You are right that the a'dam conditions them into being good little damane, as do the Sul'dam and, in the case of native damane, cultural precepts. In fact, the a'dam encourages the damane to condition herself, as we saw in your example of Egwene and the water pitcher.

jaellon: 2003-12-16

To me, free will means having the ability to control one's thoughts, desires, and attempts at action. It does not necessarily mean that an attempt at action will succeed. For example, a person in prison, in my opinion, is in complete command of their will, but their sphere of control has been limited.

With that definition, I would agree that damane do have free will.

Anubis: 2003-12-17

hmm... well the sul dan do controll the dammaes channeling. And they do have them on a leash. The thing you need to do is look at mogheiden when she was collared. She did not obey untill it became clear that she had no power. The a dan basicly gives the sul dan complete controll over the dammae. The dammae can resist... but there is really no point. Also the sul dan can channel weather or not the dammae resists, so in the end its really just a matter of convieniance.

Aiel Finn: 2005-02-22

A Sanchean Sul'dam probably cannot channel through damane without her helping, but any true channeler could. The a'dam is like a link. It gives the one with the bracelet control of the other person's access to the power just like if they were linked. In this way, the damane's cooperation is not needed to use her power.

BKVMC: 2007-07-29

there seems to be exceptions to the suldam being able to controlt he weaves a damane makes one example set in stone in COT is that the damane "mylen" who was an aes sedai before collared cannot be made to made Destructive weaves.

Marie Curie 7: 2007-08-05

BKVMC:
"there seems to be exceptions to the suldam being able to controlt he weaves a damane makes one example set in stone in COT is that the damane "mylen" who was an aes sedai before collared cannot be made to made Destructive weaves."

Any former Aes Sedai, like Mylen, who has been collared as a damane is not able to be used as a weapon (except against Shadowspawn, etc.) because of the Third Oath. RJ even confirmed this in a Tor Question of the Week:

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Questions from August 17th, 2004 - January 25th, 2005

Week 21 Question: Just how can an Aes Sedai be a damane? Aren't they bound by the Third Oath: to not use the One Power as a weapon except to defend their lives, their Warder's life, or another sister's life? Wouldn't they be useless as damane to the Seanchan?

Robert Jordan Answers: The Aes Sedai captured by the Seanchan are indeed useless as weapons, except against Shadowspawn or Darkfriends, because they are bound by the Three Oaths, and that limits their value considerably since being weapons is a major use for damane. Damane are used for other tasks, however, including finding ores for mining (Egwene was tested for this, remember; it's a very valuable, and fairly rare, ability), for some mining operations where it would be too dangerous or uneconomical to use human miners (bringing ores out of the ground and refining them using the Power), and in some construction projects, especially where something very large or with a need for added strength is envisioned. The first two both require a high ability in Earth, which has faded considerably on "this" side of the Aryth Ocean and to a smaller degree of the other side, but construction projects and others things, such as producing Sky Lights, are well within the abilities of collared Aes Sedai. The Three Oaths don't inhibit them there at all.
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