hat Ituralde is up to
by Graendalboytoy: 2003-02-10 | 4 out of 10 (3 votes)
First of all....I have a fascination for the Great Captains,so I always perk up when one of them is mentioned.I've been giving alot of thought to what Lord Ituralde is up to,and I think I may have a "Glimmer" of his overall plan against the Seanchan in Tarabon. My whole theory is based on the fact that Ituralde is given the order "to gather as many men as he can, from wherever he can find them,and strike as hard as he can at the Seanchan" Given, this order came from Graendal, but Ituralde would still follow it because he thought it came from King Alsalam. Now, Ituralde has faced the Seanchan before, "They can be defeated Lord Shimron,even with their little surprises" It also seems that Ituralde hints at a solution to battling an army that uses channelers when he states, "Besides,when you knew what the enemy could do,you adapted"
Ok...Ituralde plans on riding hard to the south,and slap the Seanchan hard in the face. After doing so, he expects that he and his men would be hounded north. This implies that Ituralde plans on leading the pursuing Seanchan somewhere, somewhere that nullifies the perceived Seanchan advantage in battle. This of course begs the question, where could Ituralde go to nullify the use of damane against his troops? Now there has been mention of numerous abandoned Stedding in the Mountains of Mist. Ituralde may be trying to get the mountains for purely defensive purposes, but he may also be planning on bringing the Seanchan pursuers to battle in a Stedding, where sul'dam and damane would be useless. His quote that "More, I have a plan that will make them snap so fast they'll break their teeth on bone before they have a mouthful of meat." This could imply that Ituralde plans on drawing the Seanchan into a Stedding, and counterattack before they realize that their Damane are useless. Any trap like that would imply that the prey need to take, or bite the bait first.
The only other option I could find here is that Ituralde plans on leading the Seanchan into the Blight itself, which would explain why he would have "furious generals" but I don't think the Saldaeans would quite appreciate that. This guy is a Great Captain after all, I'm sure he must have a pretty viable plan.There is also mention of armies already hiding in the mountains and waiting" at his order"......Any help here would be appreciated....
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-02-11
Very cool idea. I had never considered the Stedding as a weapon, the question being if he knows of the Stedding and the effect they have on channelers. He sounded pretty devious from the last we heard of him, as though, he had secondary motives and plans for everything he was doing. But as to how he plans on defeating the Seanchan, finding some type of zone where they couldn't channel is an excellent plan.
2
silverwolf: 2003-02-13
At first I had thought that he simply meant a form of guerrilla warfare, striking at companies that lack a damane and retreating before any sul'dam can be brought, but the idea of using the stedding seems plausible. Makes you wonder what Graendal is up to, drawing the Seanchan toward her (remember, Sammael tells us that her palace is practically at the foot of the Mountains of Mist in Arad Domon).
The only problem is who would have told him about the stedding and why would he have believed? Remember that Ogier are considered a legend by most people who live in that part of the world.
Check to see if you can find any reason for Graendal to draw the Seanchan to her. That would be a great boost to your theory.
3
Graendalboytoy: 2003-02-14
I think Graendal meant to have Ituralde ride south will all his force and be destroyed in a confrontation with the Seanchan. She mentioned her order as a a small means to promote chaos.I don't think she planned on the Domani army to have much of a chance.
4
Elder Haman: 2003-02-15
Educated people know about Steddings and their effect on channelers- witness Athur Hawkwing's capital being built in a Stedding- hmm, I wonder if Ishamael was ever there- can the TP be used in a Stedding?
5
Dragons Shadow: 2003-02-16
Hawkwing's great capital was never built. He died on the day that the statue was finished. That statue was the only part of the city in the stedding to have been built.
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silverwolf: 2003-02-22
Graendal could be trying to start a civil war among the Seanchan--Ituralde said that he intended to dress some of his soldiers as Taraboners and (I think) as Seanchan. That would certainly increase chaos, but I don't think it will work: the Seanchan have to be able to attack the WT in the next few books in order for Min's viewings and Egwene's dreams to come true.
7
Callandor: 2003-02-22
I think that its a good idea, but its something much much bigger. If anybody wanted to get into the Seanchan ranks all they have to do is take the oaths and join the army, even though I do admit it takes much less time to just dress as them. However, I have no clue what the big object could be.
8
jaellon: 2003-02-26
Ituralde may just be using what we would call terrorist methods. As much as we shudder to think that a Great General could sink so low, it might prove to be effective.
To explain, if he wanted to really tie down the Seanchan, a good way would be to make them focus on internal security. Look at America. So much time and resources are going to protecting ourselves internally. We know there are terrorists among us, because some of them have made themselves known, but we really don't know how many or where.
If Ituralde can establish similar conditions among the Seanchan, with their own army rising up and destroying from the inside, then they will be crippled in their efforts to conquer. Instead of a rolling tide, they would be reduced to an attack/fortify strategy.
My comments here by no means diminish the potential of leading the Seanchan on a chase into the mountains. It would not be beyond a Great General to lead the lion on a chase for the rabbit that dared bite it, while leaving a pack of jackals to eat the cubs while the lion is away.
9
TheNetweaver: 2003-03-03
I've noticed an interesting trend. Nothing significant, but it could play a role later on. All the best generals refer to "rolling the dice." We all know that Mat has some mysterious dice in his head, but Rotel Ituralde mentions rolling dice or something of the sort multiple times in the CoT prologue. In the prologue of TDR, Eamon Valda also mentions the dice falling his way. On p. 96 of WH Sebban Balwer, Valda's former secretary, states "The Whitecloaks took part in the battle, but apparently Valda managed to get most of them off the field at the end. He has the Dark One's own luck." Coincidence that Mat has been described as having the Dark One's luck? Perhaps, but it's something to keep an eye on in the coming books.
10
Anubis: 2003-03-06
battle, no matter how well planned, is still a gamble. all great, and good, commanders know this. they acknowledge that their plans can fail and that they are gambling. the dice is an easy and common refrence to gambling. its prolly just an expression.
11
Niall: 2003-03-20
I wonder....Do you think it's possible that Ituralde intends to send his Seanchan-disguised troops into Almoth Plain and Tarabon to assasinate the damane. Not necessarily honorable, but it could be very effective if it works out...if that's his plan, anyway. What do you think?
12
Anubis: 2003-04-12
rodel mentions that a way to negate the damane would be darkness and weather. so dark stormy mountains might be a good place to ambush some seekers. also there is the aiel. arent they somewhere in the area.
13
desperate: 2003-06-11
Hi guys. I am inclined to think that Silverwolf and Graendelboytoy have hit on an important feature of Rodel's plans. These plans were initiated by Graendel herself (so you named yourself well GBT!) What are the implications for Rodel's plans given that Graendel has set him up? I would hate to see one of the Great Captains defeated, especially given that it will be at great human cost. I wonder if she is trying to forestall the alliance/combination of Perrin's mob, Shaido, Dragon Sworn, white cloaks et al? Let the Lord of Chaos rule? Promote war and suffering to undermine the efforts of the Dragon to bring order before TG? Keen to get your views.
14
Rhodric: 2003-07-01
Graendal's orders were sent during the LoC, yes? or perhaps aCoS. She has simply sent the last of the great generals south, away from the imminent Trolloc invasion.
Bashere is in tear with Rand.
Agelmar is in the Braem woods with most of the Borderland forces.
Bryne is at the WT.
Niall is dead.
and now Ituralde is going to be fighting a battle with the Seanchan, likely in Tarabon.
i think this is the sole reason for Ituralde's current course of action: the Trollocs are coming, and all the great General's are squabbling over bits of land. this is the result of the "increase chaos" order from the DO.
basically i'm saying nothing good will come of his plan because the dark one is behind it.
15
Shadow Bane: 2003-07-01
I agree with Rhodric the DO's lettin the Trollocs loose soon and no one is going to be there to stop them.
16
Callandor: 2003-07-01
I agree that generals need to be at the Borderlands soon for the Trollocs, but I also think that the people that were in Braem Wood, were there to warn Rand about possible problems in the Borderlands.
17
IkilledAsmodean: 2004-01-14
I don't see as how it would require thousands of soldiers and all four monarchs to warn Rand about it. They mean to fight somebody, period. The question is who.
Also, I beleive someone reffered to Eamon Valda as a great captain. This is not true (in my opinion or that of most of Randland). He is a fair leader, as I beleive Niall said, but no great one.
18
Unicorn: 2004-01-15
IKilledAsmodean is right Eamon Valda wether he is or not has never been included with the Great Captains, that was Pedron Niall.
And isn't it a bit early for the trollocs to be let loose, not I yearn for the nex book as mch as the next guy, but in my view they will not be let loose in a big way before TG, so if they are let loose "soon" then TG is here, and then the series would end and I don't want that(yet). I think the stedding Idea for Ituraldes plan is as good as any other, only problem being how would Ituralde a) know his army is within a stedding b) make sure his own forces would not just be besieged inside this stedding, and thereby leaving the rest of his homeland wide open.
19
Damer: 2004-03-05
I agree that Ituralde could be taking his men to an abandoned stedding, (I definately dont think the Randland ogiers would stand for a battle fought in their stedding) But i think that everybody is overlooking the Seanchen and their generals. One thing in crossroads of twilight is that Rand talks about how all the Seanchen generals regroup after a lost battle and figure out why they lost and what they can do to win, someone then says that is a smart way to do things, and that all the 5 great captains did the same thing. Now if all the seanchen do the same thing then they must have plenty of great captains. So i think people are underestimating the abilities of the Seanchen captains.
I definately agree that the only reason that this is happening is that the Forsaken are creating wars in the south so when TG they can storm out of the Blight without having to fight any of the huge armies.
20
Ashaman: 2008-06-16
I like the plan about leading the damane to a stedding, but why would the seanchan go into the stedding. as soon as the first damane tells her suldame that she cannot channel here the'll get out of there. also there could be some ogier troops, who can also warn the army of the danger of the stedding.
i think what ituralde is trying to do is actually lead the seanchan army to the white tower and let the AS do the fighting for him. since we know the white tower is to be attacked soon by the seanchan and there is no seanchan army closer than the one chasing ituralde it only makes sense.
what do you think?
21
JakOShadows: 2008-06-18
ashaman: while it would be a good plan, how could accomplish that by leading them into northern arad doman. i think it is far more likely that he just want to trap the seanchan up in arad doman with an army between them and seanchan lands. the stedding idea is more plausible than the tower idea you proposed.
