hardcore fan freaks of the wheel of time

art by Darrell K. Sweet
Minimize Maximize

Theoryland Resources

WoT Interview Search

Search the most comprehensive database of interviews and book signings from Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson and the rest of Team Jordan.

Wheel of Time News

An Hour With Harriet

2012-04-30: I had the great pleasure of speaking with Harriet McDougal Rigney about her life. She's an amazing talent and person and it will take you less than an hour to agree.

Read the interview

The Bell Tolls

2012-04-24: Some thoughts I had during JordanCon4 and the upcoming conclusion of "The Wheel of Time."

Read More

Theoryland Community

Members: 7653

Logged In (0):

Newest Members:johnroserking, petermorris, johnadanbvv, AndrewHB, jofwu, Salemcat1, Dhakatimesnews, amazingz, Sasooner, Hasib123,

Theoryland Tweets

Theories

Recent Comments

Last ten comments at Theoryland.

The Bore is in Tel’aran’rhiodIf DO was able to alter reality with power...by Amaentes

Callandor's PurposeJust wanted to comment on something in reg...by Joram

Mat's luck is caused by the daggerSorry to necro this thread, but I was just...by Joram

The Real SlayerI was just thinking that since the Finns l...by jimbop79

Verin Compelled AlannaThis was alluded to early on, but let me s...by jimbop79

When the Dark One winsAlthough the books are over here is what m...by pjrobertson

Moghedien Raises the DeadThis has a lot of spoilers, so please, if ...by NaeblisSunshine

Mat & the Horn of ValereWow, found a link to this while purging my...by shaihalud

Breaking the SealsNow see, Rand isn't the only one who wants...by MMustafa

Nakomi's Soul Is BrownIn the epilogue as rand is carrying Moridins ...by Waxer

Recent Theories

Last ten theories at Theoryland.

Home | Index | Archives | Help

he Creator, The Dark One and Rand.

by jlrx: 2004-02-26 | 4 out of 10 (8 votes)

Previous Categories: All About the Creator

I believe they are both one and the same... here is why.

We constantly read of how the creator bound the dark one, with the pattern (picture the darkone surrounded by the patterns many layers, unable to leave.

In the begining the Creator wove the pattern with the wheel of time, as he wove the pattern he came to realize his creation trapped him.

Deciding to take part in the events that occur, the creator wove himself, or a part of himself into the pattern, becoming the dragon reborn mankinds salvation, "the light made flesh". In doing this, what was left behind of the creator was without light, thus it was in shadow, and this new being, The Dark One(Without light) became enraged, angrier still over being locked in by his very creation, and to top it off he was unable to touch the pattern, or do anything to change events that were occuring. Times came when he was able to reach directly through his prison and influence mankind, but always has the Dragon saved men and re-imprisoned the dark one.

It stands to reason that the darkone can only touch the present, never the past, proof lies in his inability to bring back to life any forsaken that died due to bale fire. They die at that moment, but in the past, nothing the dark one can do about it.

Why else would the dark one so badly want Rand's submission willingly? He knows that Rand's death will likely bring a new age where the dark one is bound completely again. Perhaps if Rand submits willingly the dark one would be free to touch the world directly through Rand or as has been said, unravel times itself, for his freedom.
You cannot rate theories without first logging in. Please log in.

Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2004-03-16

Verin speaks of three constants. The Creator. The Dark One. The Unseen World. While she is not a perfect fountain of truth, the books have given us no reason to believe that the Creator was/is the Dark One and was/is Rand. In fact, if it was the Creator speaking to Rand, he explicitly speaks with his own voice, his own will, independent of Rand. By the way, the DO wants Rand's willing submission, so he can take control of his soul and thwart the plans of the Creator (or Wheel of Pattern, pick your flavor.)

2

Callandor: 2004-03-16

**BWB Page 14-16

CHAPTER 1: The Wheel and the Pattern

The only know forces outside the Wheel and the Pattern are the Creator, who shaped the Wheel, the One Power that drives it--as well as the plan for the Great Pattern--and the Dark One, who was imprisoned outside the pattern by the Creator at the moment of creation.**

There is more in the quote, but it doesn't refer to this at all. Main thing is they are both defined and refered to as seperate all throughout the novels, and no clue has been given that they are one and the same. Odds are very good, if not total, that they are distinct and seperate.

3

crispyroach: 2004-03-17

The books never allude to anything like this. This would have been a decent creation story, and if it was this way, this is the way it would have been told to us this way. (you could almost write your own books from this...)

4

charliec: 2004-03-17

I'd tend to think of the creator as an infinite and eternal god (whether the Dark One is his equal is a separate question and unclear in the WoT so far).

In this case he can't be changed by the act of creation, or bound by the pattern. The impression I've had from the books is not that the Creator is unable to touch the pattern, but rather that he chooses not to in most situations.

The creator you've described is very different to this- an entity of limited power, which has foolishly created a prison for itself without foreseeing the consequences. Certainly not worth worshipping in this case, and not much of a 'Light' for the people of Randland.

Nope, I don't buy this theory... I think RJ's creator is closer to the God of the Bible as portrayed in a lot of modern culture- powerful but not very involved in reality.

5

Cossack: 2004-03-20

I disagree with this theory also.

Rand is the creator's champion, not the creator himself.

6

mazrimashaman: 2005-04-06

please do correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe anywhere in the book did it even hint at rand being the light made flesh, the only time it even said something remotely like that is from maseama(sp?), though I guess that meens it must be true....

7

Aiel Finn: 2005-04-07

Both the Creator and the DO can touch the world somewhat, but mostly only through their followers and minions. In this case, Rand is the champion of the Creator. The Creator cannot fight the battle for himself. The DO is the same way, he has his Nae'blis to fight for him. The DO cannot fight directally. All their powers must be channeled through Humans and other creatures (Shadowspawn).

8

Wielder of Waterflame: 2005-04-07

One problem I have with this is that by your theory, there is nothing left of the Creator himself-he is half the dark one and half Rand. You say he bound himself to the pattern and wove all the light into the pattern as the Dragon. What was left of him became the DO. Where is anything of the actual creator left?

9

92ysoldier: 2008-03-12

It would make since then thince throughout the novel and all the prophesies it says that it does not matter what side the DR fights on as long as he is present at the last battle. When the DO breaks out he must break completely out of his prison and fight Raad. Rand will be killed and then when his soul is controlled by the DO the DO will wake up in a way as the two parts of the puzzle are joined and the three parts of the Creator are re-joined. The Dark, Dragon, and earth. Thre creator imprisoned his dark half to make the world a perfect place described in the AoL. Akin it to the Matrix where Rand would be the last part of the puzzle that would help restart the world and the creator will re-make the prison and imprison his dark part, revive Rand as the Dragon Reborn, and release himself back into the world and the wheel would continue on starting a new age.