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Memory of Light - Prophesised Events

by dozburger: 2005-10-27 | 6.44 out of 10 (16 votes)

Recent Categories: How Will It End?

Scouring through various sites, I collected through all the prophecies that I think haven’t been fulfilled yet (I know, controversial!). I’ve grouped them together into some of the events I think will happen in A Memory of Light. The disclaimer is that this is all hearsay and I may have most, if not all of it wrong. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that, and posting anyway.

So you’ll find the event title, the quotes regarding that event, and the (generally misguided) take on those events. Within an event, I’ve tried to order the quotes in some sort of logical progression. I’ve also tried to put the events in order, but have no real basis for most of the ordinance. There’s no real spoilers regarding KoD – there wasn’t much prophecy there. Apologies for the length as well!

Prophecy Key: E – Egwene Dream’s, DP – Dark Prophecy, AP – Aiel Prophecy, G, General Prophecy, M – Min’s Viewings, P: Perrin, D: Dreamer, KP: Prophecies of the Dragon

All quotes, of course, are from the Wheel of Time books, whatever the copyright thing is.

The Song

The Quotes

E: “Perrin stepping willingly over the edge of a towering cliff while saying, "It must be done. I must learn to fly before I reach the bottom."

M: Perrin – “And trees flowering all around him.”

AP: "He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand, and he shall break them as dried twigs, yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live."

AP: "Prophecy says when the Stone of Tear falls, we will leave the Three-fold Land at last. It says we will be changed, and find again what was ours, and was lost."

AP: "When the Trollocs come out of the Blight again, we will leave the Three-fold Land and take back our places of old."

G: “…it is prophesied that a child born of a Maiden will unite the clans and return to the Aiel the greatness they knew during the Age of Legends.”

The Take

I’ve got the feeling that Perrin’s stepping off the proverbial cliff will be intricately linked to his finding the song. The Aiel quotes are there for proof that he will find the song – I’m interpreting their places of old as being that of the Da’ishan Aiel, ie. Tinkers, who just so happen to be looking for a song that will grow trees. My completely unsubstantiated guess is that the cliff will be a choice to no longer commit violence in accordance with the Way – and that as ta’veren, the Pattern will protect Perrin. This will then lead somehow to the finding of the Song – which will open the eyes of the remnant of the remnant of the Aiel to the Way of the Leaf and their greatness of old.

Moiraine

The Quotes

M: “What good to tell him he would almost certainly fail without a woman who was dead and gone?

M: “Moiraine was the only viewing of hers that had ever failed.”

E: “Thom Merrilin put his hand into a fire to draw out the small blue stone that now dangled on Moiraine's forehead.”

The Take

Lots in KoD about Moiraine, but mainly verification. As posited so long ago, Thom will probably rescue her. She has stuff to do for Rand – maybe making him cry? The woman at the top of his list suddenly returning would do that, yeah? This leads directly to…

Laughter & Tears

KP (disputed): "There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he one with the land. Soul of fire, heart of stone, in pride he conquers, forcing the proud to yield. He calls upon the mountains to kneel, and the seas to give way, and the very skies to bow. Pray that the heart of stone remembers tears, and the soul of fire, love."

Not much by the way of prophecy here, but I’m gambling on something or someone teaching Rand laughter and tears, mainly for thematic reasons. I’m picking any one of Moiraine’s return, meeting Tam again or the first sight of his children as the thing that does the trick. No idea where it will fit in turns of the timeline.

Battle For The White Tower – Part 1

The Quotes

M: "I've read you, Egwene.... I see things I am sure link you to Rand, and Perrin, and Mat, and - yes, even Galad."

M: Berelain: "Just a man in white who will make her fall head over heels."

E: “A golden hawk stretched out its wing and touched her, and she and the hawk were tied together somehow; all she knew was that the hawk was female.”

The Take

I’ve split these quotes into three sections. The first has to do with Galad and Berelain. If Egwene is going to have something to do with Galad (who sees that the Whitecloaks must unite with Aes Sedai to fight the Last Battle) and Berelain is going to team up with Galad, then Berelain may have something to do with Egwene. Lots of ifs, but, you know. I’m positing that this will have something to do with the Battle for the White Tower.

Battle For The White Tower – Part 2

The Quotes

E: “Straps at waist and shoulder held her tightly to the block, and the headsman's axe descended, but she knew that somewhere someone was running, and if they ran fast enough, the axe would stop.”

E: “In another he began swinging a door closed on her, and she knew if that narrowing gap of light vanished, she was dead.”

E: “Twice, right on top one another, she dreamed of taking him by the shoulders and trying to turn him to face the other way against his will. Once he brushed her hands away roughly; the other time, she was somehow stronger than he. The two blended together hazily.”

M: “Gawyn - Gawyn kneeling at Egwene's feet with his head bowed, and Gawyn breaking Egwene's neck, first one then the other, as if either could be the future. She had never seen that fluttering back and forth, as though not even the viewing could tell which would be the true future. Worse, she had a feeling near to certainty that it was what she had done this day that had turned Gawyn toward those two possibilities.”

E: “Gawyn - Him kneeling while she cupped his head in her hands.”

The Take

The second set have to do with Gawyn. My guess is that Egwene is going to annoy the living bejeebers out of Elaida to the extent that her death will be ordered. Gawyn shows up to find the woman of his dreams opposing the woman of his choosing. What’ll happen then? Gawyn rescues her, and she bonds him – but whether that leads to a long life or not is a whole ‘nother thang.

Battle For The White Tower – Part 3

The Quotes

D: “The land divided by the return..”

E: “A small white plinth stood centered in that circle, supporting an oil-lamp made of clear glass. The flame on that lamp burned bright and steady, without flickering. It was white too. Suddenly a pair of birds flashed out of the mist, two ravens black as night. Streaking across the spire-top, they struck the lamp and flew on without so much as a pause. The lamp spun and wobbled, dancing around atop the plinth, flinging off droplets of oil. Some of those drops caught fire in midair and vanished. Others fell around the short column, each supporting a tiny, flickering white flame. And the lamp continued to wobble on the edge of falling.”

E: “She had dreamed of the Seanchan, too, of women in dresses with lightning bolts woven on their breasts, collaring a long line of women who wore Great Serpent rings, forcing them to call lightning against the White Tower.”

E: “She was struggling up a narrow, rocky path along the face of a towering cliff. Clouds surrounded her, hiding the ground below and the crest above, yet she knew that both were very far away. [...] Abruptly, the ledge dropped away from under her with the crack of crumbling stone, and she caught frantically at the cliff, fingers scrabbling to find a hold. [...] Suddenly a woman appeared, clambering down the sheer side of the cliff out of the clouds, making her way as deftly as if she were walking down stairs. There was a sword strapped to her back. Her face wavered, never settling clearly, but the sword seemed as solid as the stone. The woman reached Egwene's level and held out one hand. "We can reach the top together," she said in a familiar drawling accent.”

D: The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

F: "The White Tower will be whole again, except for remnants cast out and scorned, whole and stronger than ever.

E: “Rand confronting her, and the women with her, and one of them was a Seanchan.”

The Take

The third set are about the battle itself. Egwene escapes to lead the attack on the White Tower. The Seanchan turn up, attacking the White Tower in turn and offer a truce of sorts to Egwene, who uses them in much the same way that Elayne used the Borderlanders. She regains the White Tower, with a Seanchan ambassador in tow (maybe Tylee? Or even Tuon?). This is the great battle done. I’m guessing this because there’s no other looming big battle (apart from Tarmon Gaidon, though the Seanchan could get nasty). The Tower is wholer and stronger than ever, meaning that the nasty BA are booted out. Rand turns up for a chat and finds an Amyrlin angry over his unification plans (see below).

The Second Hurting

The Quotes

M: “Twice he's (Perrin) going to have to be there, or you... If he's not, something bad will happen to you. Very bad. It will happen if he is not there, but nothing I saw said it won't because he is. It will be very bad, Rand.”

M: “Rand in chains, and it was he who was screaming.”

M: Rand – “a bloody hand and white-hot iron”

M: Elayne – “A severed hand, not hers”

M: "above Elayne's, a red-hot iron and an axe."

M: "And there's something...dark...in the images I saw around Lord Davram."

The Take

Those Borderlanders, who have been hungrily hovering since Book 6, will finally have something to do. If Rand is to tie the north to the west (see The Split below), then he’s gonna have to take these guys by the scruff of the neck and show them who’s boss. But I’m guessing that this will be his second hurting by women who can channel. It may involve chains, Elayne, and another hand, though I can’t seeing Rand losing another one. I’ve also thrown in the Bashere quote – maybe Tenobia tells him to get back into line and he betrays Rand as a result. And that betrayal ends up with Tenobia dead and a Broken Crown for Perrin? Anyway, Rand gets seriously hurt (again!), Elayne saves him and Rand cracks the whip over 200,000 or so new borderland recruits. Of course, Semirhage lurking doesn’t bode well for Rand either…

The Split

The Quotes

D: “The land divided by the return..”

KP: "The north shall he tie to the east, and the west shall be bound to the south."

D: “Bair and Amys dreamed of you cutting the wetlands in two with a sword.”

KP: He "shall bind the nine moons to serve him."

The Take

Knife of Dreams makes it clear that Rand will split the wetlands in two, as a direct consequence of prophecy and the Seanchan. As a supposition, Rand will only divide the wetlands in two when he has control of the Seanchan (after the binding. I suppose this could take place through Mat). And he will only have control of the Seanchan after the Battle for the White Tower is completed. Note also that Rand will have to take control of the Borderlanders, before the Split can happen.

The Beggar’s Staff

The Quotes

M: Rand – “a beggar's staff”

P: “Perrin thought it was Rand. He wore rags and a rough cloak, and a bandage covered his eyes.”

Moridin: "The Fisher was always worked as a man, a bandage blinding his eyes and one hand pressed to his side, a few drops of blood dripping through his fingers. The reasons, like the source of the name, were lost in the mist of time."

The Take

As Min’s earliest viewing of Rand and given the importance of every other foretelling in that viewing (the crown, Callandor etc.), I’m assuming there’s something really significant about the Beggar’s Staff, but have no idea what or when. Maybe it occurs after the second hurting? Or maybe it’s a strategy to get him closer to Shayol Ghul?

The Black Tower

The Quotes

F: “The Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire, and sisters will walk its grounds."

E: “Logain, laughing, stepped across something on the ground and mounted a black stone; when she looked down, she thought it was Rand's body he had stepped over, laid out on a funeral bier with his hands crossed at his breast, but when she touched his face, it broke apart like a paper puppet.”

M: "It's Cadsuane. She is going to teach you something, you and the Asha'man. All the Asha'man, I mean. It's something you have to learn, but I don't know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You aren't going to like it at all."

The Take

Sisters already walk it’s grounds, but my interpretation is that this is a significant ‘walking’ and will occur after the rending. Taim (the paper puppet) and his cronies will be cast out by Logain, who, with or without Rand’s help will rather easily dispose of him (why else would he be laughing?). Logain will then take up the post of M’Hael or leader of the male channelers and go forth unto glory. Subsequent to this, Cadsuane will finally step in and teach all of those arrogant, rude Asha’man some manners – maybe in the form of written law by which they must all abide (this would certainly make all of them unhappy as they’ve been free to do whatever they want up until then), or maybe even by forcing White Tower law down their throats.

Reunition

The Quotes

D: “…and the guardians balance the servants.”

E: “Rand building a wall with him on one side and her on the other, her and Elayne and others she could not make out. "It has to be done," he was saying as he piled up stones. "I'll not let you stop me now."

E: “She stood before an immense wall, clawing at it, trying to tear it down with her bare hands. It was not made of brick or stone, but countless thousands of discs, each half white and half black, the ancient symbol of the Aes Sedai, like the seven seals that had once held the DO's prison shut...the wall stood strong however she beat at it. She could not tear it down. Maybe it was the symbol that was important. Maybe it was the AS she was trying to tear down, the White Tower. Maybe....”

E: “Rand confronting her, and the women with her, and one of them was a Seanchan.”

F: “Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger.”

AP: “Under this sign (the ancient Aes Sedai symbol) he will conquer."

The Take

I’m throwing these quotes together, because I think (but hey, what would I know?) one of the MAJOR events that has to happen in Book 12 is reunition of male and female channelers. Why? Because last time the DO popped out they weren’t that united and look what happened. As RJ has repeatedly stated, the greatest deeds are always wrought when men and women work together and when saidar and saidan work together. So I’m positing that the channelers will once more be reunited and that Egwene will not be happy about it, either during or after. After fighting and regaining the Tower, she’ll be pretty narky about someone coming in and saying that the Tower’s should merge.

The Choice

The Quotes

E: “In another a woman, face shrouded in shadow, beckoned him (Mat) toward great danger; Egwene did not know what, only that it was monstrous.”

E: “Mat, weighing two Aes Sedai on a huge set of balance scales, and on his decision depended....She could not say what; something vast; the world, perhaps.”

AE: “To give up half the light of the world to save the world.”

E: “Mat, placing his own left eye on a balance scale.”

M: Mat – “..an eye on a balance scale…”

E: “Mat throwing dice with blood streaming down his face, the wide brim of his hat pulled low so she could not see his wound”

The Take

It’s been mentioned numerous times. Mat will have to choose between two Aes Sedai and the fate of the world rests on that choice. I think he’ll lose an eye in the process as the balance theme is common to all of these quotes. What’s the choice, though, and between who? I’m guessing that one (or more) of his three Aes Sedai is currently black, but can’t trace that through to the end of the world.

Tarmon Gaidon

The Quotes

M: Mat – “…a horn..”

G: “In the last, lorn fight

'gainst the fall of long night,

the mountains stand guard,

and the dead shall be ward,

for the grave is no bar to my call.”

F: "The very first thing Elaida had ever Foretold, while still an Accepted - and had known enough even then to keep to herself - was that the Royal line of Andor would be the key to defeating the Dark One in the Last Battle."

AP: "He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand, and he shall break them as dried twigs, yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live."

AP: He will come from Rhuidean at dawn, and tie you together with bonds you cannot break. He will take you back, and he will destroy you."

M: Logain - a flaring halo around his head, radiant in gold and blue. It shouted of glory and power to come.

M: "When you two (Rand & Perrin) were together, I saw those fireflies and the darkness stronger than ever...But with the two of you in the same room, the fireflies were holding their own instead of being eaten faster than they can swarm, the way they do when you're alone.

DP: Death shall sow, and summer burn, before the Great Lord comes.

Death shall reap, and bodies fail, before the Great Lord comes.

Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great Lord comes.

Now the Great Lord comes.

The Take

All pretty self-explanatory. The heroes will fight in the Last Battle, Mat and Perrin will have to be with Rand. But the DP quote is the interesting one. The Seanchan (the seed) will slay an ancient wrong – then the Dark One will return. Maybe their action will presage Tarmon Gaidon? An even more interesting bit (to me) is that they’ll slay it again (which is one interpretation of the line). Which means they’ve slain it already.

The Final Confrontation

The Quotes

E: “Him walking down into a great hole in a black mountain, a hole filled with a reddish glare as from vast fires below.”

E: “Him walking toward a burning mountain, something crunching beneath his boots. She stirred and whimpered; the crunching things were the seals on the Dark One's prison, shattering with his every step. She knew it. She did not need to see them to know.”

KP: Like the unfettered dawn shall he blind us, and burn us, yet shall the Dragon Reborn confront the Shadow at the Last Battle, and his blood shall give us the Light.

KP: "When the winds of Tarmon Gai'don scour the earth, he will face the Shadow and bring forth Light again in the world."

The Take

Rand deliberately breaks the seals and brings on Tarmon Gaidon (which could be fairly brief if he has to confront the Dark One immediately). He then goes to Shayol Ghul for the grandstand finish we’ve all been waiting for – yea verily, it will rock. How he defeats the Dark One? Plenty of ideas, no clues.

Rand’s Death

The Quotes

DP: The man who channels stands alone.

He gives his friends for sacrifice.

Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to life eternal.

Which will he choose? Which will he choose?

What hand shelters? What hand slays?

AE: “He had been told by those he had to believe. To live, you must die.”

E: “Rand, wearing different masks, until suddenly one of those false faces was no longer a mask, but him.

M: Rand: "I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and....one of you dies, and one doesn't."

M: "Rand, I like Alivia. But she is going to kill you." Rand replies, "Helping me die isn't the same as killing me. Unless you've changed your mind about what you saw."

M: “Three women standing over a funeral bier with you on it, black rock wet with blood.”

KP: "The blood of the Dragon Reborn on the rocks of Shayol Ghul will free mankind from the Shadow."

KP: "Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth.

Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.

In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

KP: "Twice and twice shall he be marked,

twice to live and twice to die.”

The Take

Right. Rand’s now got nine (count ‘em!), nine people in either permanent or temporary residence in his head: Himself, Lews Therin, Moridin, Alanna, Elayne, Aviendha, Min, Mat and Perrin. That’s a helluva lot, and I’m guessing the mask thing has something to do with these guys, though more particularly, I can see he and Ishamael wrestling for control of their respective bodies, with Lews Therin not helping in the slightest.

Now I’m guessing this will take place at Rand’s death, though I’m not sure how or why. Let’s be honest here. I’m pretty sure that Rand is gonna die. Min’s quote, the Finns. And that he will then be bought back to life. I’m hoping, anyway. The guy sure deserves it. Maybe as ta’varen, the Dark One will try to take control of the pattern through Rand. Rand will allow himself to be taken over, only to have Alivia kill him off and end the Dark One’s control. I dunno. I just can’t wait to read it.

After

The Quotes

JP: The Jendai Prophecy says the Sea Folk will serve the Coramoor. It says the Coramoor will bring the Sea Folk to glory - all the seas of the world will be theirs.

KP: "For he shall come like the breaking dawn, and shatter the world again with his coming, and make it anew."

KP: “Who draws it out shall follow after,

What hand can grasp that fearful blade?"

He had thought carefully before choosing Narishma…

M: Lan: “Seven ruined towers around his head, and a babe in a cradle holding a sword.”

M: “A fire-haired novice and a guard - they would be married soon. There was a farm in that pair's future, and a swarm of children.”

M: "You will be punished for what happens here today, Harine, but not so much as you fear, I think. At least, one day you will be the Mistress of the Ships."

M: “Caraline and Darlin - Darlin will die in bed and Caraline will survive him.”

M: “Nesune - She will found a library and receive honors and fame.”

M: “Aviendha would have Rand's babies, too. Four of them at once! Something was odd about that, though. The babies would be healthy, but still something odd.”

E: “...a man riding on a black stallion. Gawyn. Then she was standing in the road in front of him, and he reined in. Not because he saw her...but the road that had been straight now forked right where she stood, running over tall hills so no one could see what lay beyond. She knew, though. Down one fork was his violent death, down the other, a long life and a death in bed. On one path, he would marry her, on the other, not. She knew what lay ahead, but not which way led to which. Suddenly he did see her, or seemed to, and smiled, and turned his horse along one of the forks...”

M: Perrin – “..a broken crown..”

The Take

Just an interesting collection of quotes that seem to indicate that there is indeed life after Tarmon Gaidon….

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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2005-11-12

There is a overabundance to comment on here. Actually, in reading what you have compiled, I think I have a theory or two I will have to write concerning Rand. It made me realize that I need to go back and re-read the series looking for things that haven't happened, because we are at the end. If it is going to happen, it will happen in the last book. I disagree with some of your assessments concerning Mat and Rand, but I will leave this for the body of Theoryland to comment on. I don't have enough time to address each piece. Good luck.

2

monachetti: 2005-11-12

just a comment about finding the song...it could be trivial, but i was thinking that there was that terangreal that aviendha figured would hold a ton of songs in it...

3

Aelfinn: 2005-11-12

I like your quotes on how there'll be life after Tarmon Gai'don.

I never really thought about how there's NINE people in Rand's head. Anyone here study psychology? There's gotta be something with that, about his mental state.

4

raven killer: 2005-11-12

I first would like to commend the awesome collection of quotes and exerpts that you have compiled here. Very well done!

Anyway I definately think that you have an interesting theory about the confrontation with the DO, it seems to me that a lot of people seem to leave him out of the picture during TG.

someone else who has not been included is Shadar Haran, who i have not seen many predictions about either. I think that he will have a major part in the final book and during the LB (though i have no evidence or theorys to back this up)but we dont know that much about him anyway.

I also really like your ideas on the "fisher". I always thought that this game (i dont remember what its called) would somehow have some importance in predicting TG. and will have to go back and look for any other references.

5

JakOShadows: 2005-11-12

Good effort at piecing together the millions of prophecies that haven't been fulfilled yet. But I think you were trying to connect too many of them.

"I’ve got the feeling that Perrin’s stepping off the proverbial cliff will be intricately linked to his finding the song. The Aiel quotes are there for proof that he will find the song – I’m interpreting their places of old as being that of the Da’ishan Aiel, ie. Tinkers, who just so happen to be looking for a song that will grow trees."

I always thought the song was related to the Ogier somehow. That the ogier treesinging is the song, and then there is also that ter'angreal Aviendha discovered too. And as to him refusing to do violence, he may do so after the LB, but he is too much tied to his duty for that to happen. And being ta'veren means that you twist fate a little bit, not that you invincible, so I don't think its that either. It's more the fact, that he is and was facing odds way against him. The Shaido could have been interpreted as this event, he knew he wanted to fight the Shaido before he had the men required. So I don't see those as connected.

"I’m picking any one of Moiraine’s return, meeting Tam again or the first sight of his children as the thing that does the trick. No idea where it will fit in turns of the timeline."

Unless RJ skips ahead in time, which I hope he doesn't do, Elayne won't have enough time to have her kids. So it won't be Elayne having her kids. And it won't be her dying since we know she he'll have her babies at least several months later.

"If Egwene is going to have something to do with Galad (who sees that the Whitecloaks must unite with Aes Sedai to fight the Last Battle) and Berelain is going to team up with Galad, then Berelain may have something to do with Egwene. Lots of ifs, but, you know. I’m positing that this will have something to do with the Battle for the White Tower."

I don't think Galad and Berelain have anything to do with the conflict between AS. They may help Egwene a lot in the LB or similar events there, but the events with the WT that are going on now probably won't involve Berelain or Galad being that they are leagues away from there right now.

". Egwene escapes to lead the attack on the White Tower. The Seanchan turn up, attacking the White Tower in turn and offer a truce of sorts to Egwene, who uses them in much the same way that Elayne used the Borderlanders."

I don't think events will happen they way you think. First off, Egwene was winning support from inside the tower. And from the looks of things, she has by the end of her chapter. So I don't think she would escape now. Rather, I think she'll unite the tower from the inside and fight the seanchan from there. Then when the seanchan attack, they'll take the rebel AS, leash them, and Egwene will somehow work out a truce after a bitter fight. It would be cool if it was part of a penance for Elaida and the tower AS to be put on a leash, but Egwene wants to avoid hate as much as possible. So it probably will be likely that the Seanchan will be overwhelmed by at home, so they stop the attack and call a truce.

"Those Borderlanders, who have been hungrily hovering since Book 6, will finally have something to do. If Rand is to tie the north to the west (see The Split below), then he’s gonna have to take these guys by the scruff of the neck and show them who’s boss. But I’m guessing that this will be his second hurting by women who can channel. It may involve chains, Elayne, and another hand, though I can’t seeing Rand losing another one. I’ve also thrown in the Bashere quote – maybe Tenobia tells him to get back into line and he betrays Rand as a result. And that betrayal ends up with Tenobia dead and a Broken Crown for Perrin? Anyway, Rand gets seriously hurt (again!), Elayne saves him and Rand cracks the whip over 200,000 or so new borderland recruits. Of course, Semirhage lurking doesn’t bode well for Rand either…"

I don't think the borderlanders are that stupid. NOT like all the other nations who scheme against them, they are just feeling overlooked, and they will hopefully see sense enough to not torture him or anything like that. Now the thirteen AS may do this, but the borderlanders would definitely put a quick stop to if they could, and considering they have a massive army I think they would have enough sway. And as for the broken crown, I see that as separate from events with Rand's first meeting with the borderlanders, rather, as a result of the fighting that will be in the LB. And as to his torturing, I don't think it will be tied to this either. It will be three separate events, but Semirhage isn't a bad guess.

"As Min’s earliest viewing of Rand and given the importance of every other foretelling in that viewing (the crown, Callandor etc.), I’m assuming there’s something really significant about the Beggar’s Staff, but have no idea what or when. Maybe it occurs after the second hurting? Or maybe it’s a strategy to get him closer to Shayol Ghul?"

I don't think posing as a beggar will help sneak up to Shayul Ghul. Rather, I think it will help him clean up events before them. If people don't know where he is or what he's doing, it keeps them guessing. Mostly, he's going to try and spin a trap that will spring on a target before they can do anything. Like in the BT, Seanchan, or elsewhere. I don't think he has much time, but I believe he'll have to be the absolute leader of the LB.

"Sisters already walk it’s grounds, but my interpretation is that this is a significant ‘walking’ and will occur after the rending. Taim (the paper puppet) and his cronies will be cast out by Logain, who, with or without Rand’s help will rather easily dispose of him (why else would he be laughing?). Logain will then take up the post of M’Hael or leader of the male channelers and go forth unto glory. Subsequent to this, Cadsuane will finally step in and teach all of those arrogant, rude Asha’man some manners – maybe in the form of written law by which they must all abide (this would certainly make all of them unhappy as they’ve been free to do whatever they want up until then), or maybe even by forcing White Tower law down their throats."

I don't think Cadsuane can force tower law down their throats. Rather, I think it will be the fact that all these AS are bonding Ashaman as warders. And Cadsuane will use her force of will to teach the warders that when they are bonded to a sister, they have to obey certain rules. Much like she is doing with Rand. That annoyed me when so much when she did that in KoD. But this will no way be related to the fighting at the BT. It may be a result, but it won't be a decision of the AS to step in. Rather, the BT will become more pacified, as it were. A plus of learning to do more than be a weapon.

"I’m throwing these quotes together, because I think (but hey, what would I know?) one of the MAJOR events that has to happen in Book 12 is reunition of male and female channelers. Why? Because last time the DO popped out they weren’t that united and look what happened. As RJ has repeatedly stated, the greatest deeds are always wrought when men and women work together and when saidar and saidan work together. So I’m positing that the channelers will once more be reunited and that Egwene will not be happy about it, either during or after. After fighting and regaining the Tower, she’ll be pretty narky about someone coming in and saying that the Tower’s should merge."

Again, there is not enough time before the LB. I agree Egwene will not be happy with Rand, and Rand might not be too happy with Egwene. But I believe they will see past that and unite for the good of the world. One of the few people I trust to do that. Her and Galad at least.

"I’m guessing that one (or more) of his three Aes Sedai is currently black, but can’t trace that through to the end of the world."

I believe Joline is of the red ajah, and we know what a df hotbed that is. As to the others, I don't know.

". The Seanchan (the seed) will slay an ancient wrong – then the Dark One will return. Maybe their action will presage Tarmon Gaidon?"

Maybe I'm missing something, but what makes the Seanchan "the seed." I could see how the damane and sul'dam thing is an evil and how it was related to what AS did before Luthair came over. So that would be two incidences. I've just never seen that reference before.

"Right. Rand’s now got nine (count ‘em!), nine people in either permanent or temporary residence in his head: Himself, Lews Therin, Moridin, Alanna, Elayne, Aviendha, Min, Mat and Perrin. That’s a helluva lot, and I’m guessing the mask thing has something to do with these guys, though more particularly, I can see he and Ishamael wrestling for control of their respective bodies, with Lews Therin not helping in the slightest.

Now I’m guessing this will take place at Rand’s death, though I’m not sure how or why. Let’s be honest here. I’m pretty sure that Rand is gonna die. Min’s quote, the Finns. And that he will then be bought back to life. I’m hoping, anyway. The guy sure deserves it. Maybe as ta’varen, the Dark One will try to take control of the pattern through Rand. Rand will allow himself to be taken over, only to have Alivia kill him off and end the Dark One’s control. I dunno. I just can’t wait to read it."

The mask thing, I think is more related to Moridin than anyone else. The warder bond doesn't really have a merging affect, on sensing and enhancement ability. Mat and Perrin is more like seeing the people he needs, like telepathy, not a strong link. And LTT is still the same as he is, just an alternate personality. He might not be able to control, but I don't think its like having a whole 'nother person in your head. Of course, KoD does confuse this quite a bit, with Semirhage's quote. I just think that its not quite that he has nine people fighting for control in his head. And I don't think Moridin will get strong enough ever to in Rand to control him. Rather, they will just have a super sensitive connection to each other. The only person Rand will have to battle inside his head is LTT, and that hopefully not too much. And not to mention, he probably supresses those warder bonds a lot too. And the colors, too. It's a lot to manage, but I wouldn't say they exert the same amount of control on him. Most are actually quite weak. I see your point though.

"I never really thought about how there's NINE people in Rand's head. Anyone here study psychology? There's gotta be something with that, about his mental state."

His mental state strikes me as schizophrenia(sorry about the spelling), considering he has two different memories in his head, and different thoughts tied to his memories. The only twist is that they are both there at the same time. So it is tricky. Maybe you should ask a psychology major who reads the books.

6

Saidar Haran: 2005-11-13

I always considered him to have Padan Fain/Mordeth/DO's hound in his head as well... at some point Fain/Mordeth says that someone had taken possesion of part of Al'thor from him (ie. Alanna's bonding him, which makes sense in timeline) which indicates that Fain is in his head

7

therobotbadger: 2005-11-13

** E: “Mat, weighing two Aes Sedai on a huge set of balance scales, and on his decision depended....She could not say what; something vast; the world, perhaps.”

AE: “To give up half the light of the world to save the world.” **

I'm not sure if I've seen this posted before or not, but it's an idea I've had kicking around for a while. KoD just made it more possible, in my mind. Perhaps the "two Aes Sedai" are not really two, but the two factions. What with the Seanchan likely attacking the Tower soon, and Mat having some sort of a key place in the Empire (not to mention oodles of skill as a general), perhaps it is Mat who will lead the attack? And perhaps the "half the light" quote is also about his choice, which could kill half the Aes Sedai. Wouldn't it just be perfect? Mat, always looking for a way to avoid Aes Sedai, having to intertwine himself so deeply in their affairs that he has sole determination of the outcome of their conflict?

8

Lord of the Dawn: 2005-11-13

Good theory dozburger.

***someone else who has not been included is Shadar Haran, who i have not seen many predictions about either. I think that he will have a major part in the final book and during the LB (though i have no evidence or theorys to back this up)but we dont know that much about him anyway.***

One of my Predictions is that Shaidar Haran will be killed by Padan Fain on the slopes of Shayol Ghul. I too think that Shaidar will play an important part. I think that it will go something like this:

Rand goes to Shayol Ghul to seal the Bore

Here comes Shaidar Haran who does his cool shielding thing and is going to kill Rand and co.

Padan Fain leaps out yelling about how Rand is his and kills Shaidar with the Shadar Logoth dagger and is either killed by Shaidar as he's dying or Rand and co. blast him.

And don't worry JackOShadows, you spelled it right ;)

9

jackmisfit: 2005-11-14

I have to admit that I havn't kept up with the series as of late, but I do read Theoryland a lot to keep up to date with how everyone thinks the series will end!!

Anyways, I was reading through the various prophecies and saw three that when put in a row, seem to tie together.

1. M: Rand: "I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and....one of you dies, and one doesn't."

2. M: “Three women standing over a funeral bier with you on it, black rock wet with blood.”

3. E: Logain, laughing, stepped across something on the ground and mounted a black stone; when she looked down, she thought it was Rand's body he had stepped over, laid out on a funeral bier with his hands crossed at his breast, but when she touched his face, it broke apart like a paper puppet

I find the similarities between the 3 prophecies to be a bit uncanny. To me, it seems like RJ is beating Rand to a bloody pulp and that eventually you have to ask yourself how he will live through the series, (if he does!!). Rand has all of the voices in his head, the wound on his side that doesn't heal, the taint is still in him, the loss of a hand, etc...

It seems that RJ is big on the idea of people being able to be reborn in other people, (like the Dragon Reborn, like the Forsaken that get themselves killed). Would it be that far of a stretch to guess that the last battle happens, and as dozburger "posits", "Rand will allow himself to be taken over, only to have Alivia kill him off and end the Dark One’s control.", and that when he dies, (however he dies), he gets "Reborn" in Logains body? I'm sure there would be plenty of ways to do it that wouldn't make him evil like the Forsaken...

Just a guess. I don't know if anyone else has linked the 3 quotes together or not, they just seemed to pop out a bit when I read them. And, everytime I read the "Logain laughing" propbecy, it's always tied to the Black Tower, not TG.

10

The One-Winged Angel: 2005-11-14

Good job! I just have one thing to say about Perrin, and I haven't really seen anything of this sort yet, but I'm not 100% on that... Anyways, there is always the possibility of Perrin following the Way of the Leaf before Tar'mon Gaidin. I believe this might be the case because of what Artur Hawkwing said to him when Mat sounded the Horn the first time. Artur called him a bannerman, which means (obviously) that he Carries the Army's banner. From what I've seen, the bannerman does not always carry a weapon, usually just a staff with the banner on it, and are a morale booster more so then a soldier. It is thus that I believe that Perrin will in fact Carry the Dragon Banner to Tar'mon Gaidin as opposed to fight in it... However, he does still have his hammer, and has been known to wield that to great effect when need be, so I could be more wrong then right... Only a thought!

11

Lord of the Dawn: 2005-11-14

Interesting thought Angel (can I call you that?)

But I still believe that Perrin will lead the wolves and Wolfbrothers into the Last Battle and fight Slayer and the Darkhounds.

12

Elan Morin Tedronai 21: 2005-11-15

Actually Jak it's Teslyn who's Red Ajah, Joline is Green, and I never can remember what Edesina is (yellow i think). However, I wouldn't place all my faith in Teslyn being the Black sister if there is one w/ Mat just because she's Red. She's been a lot more loyal and helpful to Mat than either of the other two have. We haven't seen a whole lot out of Edesina and Joline's basically just been a royal pain in the @$$.

13

Bayle: 2005-11-15

I do think Perrin will be inextricably linked to the finding of the song and/or the Way of the Leaf. His guilt over Aram 's turning, his constant struggle with the axe and the hammer, he tinkers always maintaining hope he and Elyas would someday follow the Way...

I do agree he will lead the wolves, and fighting Slayer and the Darkhounds is alomst inevitable, a perfectly set up, thought very predictable confrontation. But I think Perrin, in the midst of the final violence of TG will find some sort of peace. I think the violence might become too much or make him finally realize its futility...

Of course the only caveat to this prediction is Faile... she would hardly let him settle down and become tame...

The Broken Crown? This is either him becoming king of the border lands, or at least of Saldaea, but perhaps it is that he denies the crown and refuses to accept the "glory" that comes from his own violence...

It will be nice to see some complexity come back to Perrin though, perhaps, in teh last book. He has had a one track mind, rightfully so of course, for the last few books, and now that he has his wife, it will be a wonder as to what he does next...

14

FraKcture: 2005-11-15

I should probably go read this before replying, but I'm at work. But anyway, as I recall, Hawkwing calls Perrin "bannerman" simply because he was carrying the dragon banner. I think Perrin giving up the axe is as far as he's going to go.

15

JollyW89: 2005-11-15

E: “She was struggling up a narrow, rocky path along the face of a towering cliff. Clouds surrounded her, hiding the ground below and the crest above, yet she knew that both were very far away. [...] Abruptly, the ledge dropped away from under her with the crack of crumbling stone, and she caught frantically at the cliff, fingers scrabbling to find a hold. [...] Suddenly a woman appeared, clambering down the sheer side of the cliff out of the clouds, making her way as deftly as if she were walking down stairs. There was a sword strapped to her back. Her face wavered, never settling clearly, but the sword seemed as solid as the stone. The woman reached Egwene's level and held out one hand. "We can reach the top together," she said in a familiar drawling accent.”

I believe there is a part of that quote u are missing. I beleive the person had a sword that was as bright as the sun or something like that.

In some part of the series i believe that is was in Falme there is a mention of a hero of the horn that had a sword that glew like the sun. We know that Cain has been reborn and to some extent Birget. So could this person be a hero reborn? and in the quote its pretty clear its a Seanchan soldier. This might not have to do with anything but i think the fact that there is some evidence that another hero was reborn was interesting. If not revlevent

16

JollyW89: 2005-11-15

The Broken Crown has something to do with Saldea, because when Perrin mentions it to her father and he gets upset, almost as if he thinks he loves her for the Broken Crown.

17

JakOShadows: 2005-11-15

Elan:

Sorry, but I meant that Joline was a threat. She seems to think that she has to bond him to control him, and you would think AS would learn they can't control events right now. Of course, Mat is a channeler and Joline hasn't met Alanna. I think its more that the pattern won't let him be tied down. You think they'd be more thankful that he rescued them, but anyways...we'll just try and ignore it for now.

frackture:

You can kind see that Perrin has moved on after he rescued Faile. He had come to terms with the Seanchan, he has remembered his duty to Alliandre and what he has to do. He is back on track. So he will have a better storyline after this.

18

JakOShadows: 2005-11-15

Sorry, that last segment was meant for Bayle, not frackture. I just wasn't paying atttention.

19

HawkeWolfe: 2005-11-16

I had forgotten about Aviendha also having Rand's children. There are a lot of folks that believe that Rand will die at the last battle and that will be it for him, but unless Aviendha and Rand get together soon and start "making" babies, he will have to be brought back to life to fulfill Min's prophecy. Either that or he will fake his death, as some have postulated.

20

mako0424: 2005-11-17

This is regarding the possibility of another reborn Hero.

It does describe the Seanchan woman as being very bright, but this could be one of many reasons, ie. metaphorical for life-saving and noble, or just that she'll descend from above, or even that egwene won't know at the time who she is either.

but the Hero you were describing, just from memory, was a female Hero with the Sword of the Sun. now, it would be super cool if Egeanin/Leilwin Shipless proves herself a Hero of the Horn, reborn, because i think there should have been some more reborn logically for the Last Battle, but this is no evidence of this as of yet.

21

FraKcture: 2005-11-17

You had me wrinkling my brow for a second there, Jak! I agree with your take on Perrin. I think his storyline got pretty bogged down. Faile's rescue took way too long, but I guess RJ didn't have anything better for him to be doing. It's probably a timing thing where he wants Perrin & co to come back at the right time.

22

minalth: 2005-11-17

Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to life eternal.

Which will he choose? Which will he choose?

What hand shelters? What hand slays?

does this mean that the DO would shelter rand if he turned, and the Creator would kill him with his plans?

23

FraKcture: 2005-11-17

Mako - I don't see a real need for the wheel to spin out any more heroes. The horn will be used to call them back for the LB. Just my opinion.

24

Thidgen: 2005-11-17

I dont know if its been posted before but it seems to me its very possible that Oliver is Cain reborn. If this is true I believe it stands to reason that he would have some fairly significant task to complete before the LB. Most likely something having to do with Birgitte. I dont really know what it could be but I thought i'd put it out there.

25

jackmisfit: 2005-11-17

Re: A Memory of Light - Prophesised Events

Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to life eternal.

Which will he choose? Which will he choose?

What hand shelters? What hand slays?

Does this mean that the DO would shelter rand if he turned, and the Creator would kill him with his plans?

Minalth, I always assumed it to be simply that Rand is the key to TG. Either he chooses Light, "life eternal, the hand that shelters", or dark, "death beyond dying (like the Forsaken), and the hand that slays".

26

JakOShadows: 2005-11-18

"I dont know if its been posted before but it seems to me its very possible that Oliver is Cain reborn."

RJ has said that Olver is not Gaidal Cain. Gaidal Cain would have to be less than one year old as of the present time in the books, or else Gaidal would have gone back in time to reborn, which RJ also said was impossible.

27

uaintjak: 2005-11-19

So, I just had a thought about Elayne. What if her viewing involving a severed hand was actually pointing to a severed Hand. As in, Hand of the Dark One. Shaidar Haran was thinking (in it's point of view) that it's link to Shayol Ghul (it having to return there every so often) must be severed.

I had always thought Elayne would end up whacking one of Rand's hands off with an axe, but apparently that ain't gonna happen, so I went with a whacked out theory instead.

28

Lord of the Dawn: 2005-11-19

Thidgen:

But how could Olver possibly be Gaidal Cain reborn? It makes no sense. Birgitte reported that he had been woven by the Pattern in Book 6-7 I think... so he would be a young baby right now.

I do think that Birgitte will find Gaidal Cain as a baby.

TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 9 - Decisions

"You are Lews Therin Telamon. Oh, physically, nothing is the same except your height, but I would know who is behind those eyes even if I'd found you in your cradle." She laughed suddenly. "How much easier everything would be if I had found you then. If I had been free to. . . ." Laughter faded into an angry stare. "Do you wish to see my true appearance? You can't remember that, either, can you?"


This suggests that Birgitte could possibly see Gaidal as a baby and recognize him.

29

JakOShadows: 2005-11-19

uaintjack:

Where is that said? I vaguely remember him thinking about having to cope with it, but not that he literally wants to break off from it. And as to Elayne cutting off his hand, how would that have anything to do with him breaking his tie with the DO. I don't see Elayne ever getting that close to him. I figured he'd be with the forsaken at the strike at Shayul Ghul. Unless she does something really reckless because she's pregnant. I just don't see it happening though. I'm tempted to think its here relationship to Rand.

30

Anubis: 2005-11-25

**Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to life eternal.

Which will he choose? Which will he choose?

What hand shelters? What hand slays?

Does this mean that the DO would shelter rand if he turned, and the Creator would kill him with his plans?**

Yes, I think that if the Dark One turned Rand then the Dark One would try to preserve him, while the Creator would try to kill him. Think about the game Morridin talked about, with the Fisher. Both sides try to control the Fisher, and the side that doesnt have the Fisher tries to take it from the other side, while the side that does tries to protect it. Its a metaphor for the struggle between the Pattern and the Dark One, however, I dont believe that the Dark One has ever gotten control of the Fisher in the sense that the Fisher willingly went over to the Dark, the best the Dark has managed is manipulation and guiding, but those are some degree of controll

31

primaris: 2005-11-25

"death beyond death" means he will be balefired. This is because it not just just kills you but also destroys your soul, so you won't get born again. "Life everlasting" is probably due to the reincarnation of his soul (like LTT into Rand, since this has happened countless times in the pattern).

"The Broken Crown" referring to Perrin does mean that he will become King of Saldaea (or at lest Faile Queen). When the four Borderland monarchs meet in book 6 i think a description is given of Tenobia and it says (roughly) that she will die a maiden and the throne will pass to her uncle "Davram, or his heir". Those three words weren't put in by fluke. As stated numerous times Faile is the oldest of his surviving children, so you can see where that is going

32

Lord of the Dawn: 2005-12-01

*** Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to life eternal. ***

It seems to me that life eternal would be being continually reborn in every age, like Birgitte. That would happen if he chose the right path and sealed the DO.

Death beyond dying would be if he chose the wrong path, could not seal the DO. The DO breaks free, remakes the Wheel, kills Rand, Rand will never be reborn again. He is permanently dead because the DO would make the Pattern so that people wouldn't be reborn.

33

Stilicho: 2005-12-07

Quote:

“Aviendha would have Rand's babies, too. Four of them at once! Something was odd about that, though. The babies would be healthy, but still something odd.”

The "something odd" is that they have black hair like Moridin. This haapens because Rand fathers these children on Aviendha after he merges with Moridin and switches bodies. Q.E.D. It's gona happen folks, join the faction while you still can.

34

Anubis: 2005-12-13

**"death beyond death" means he will be balefired. This is because it not just just kills you but also destroys your soul, so you won't get born again.**

Yes, that is exactly how balefire works...

35

RoseClover: 2006-02-26

I was just reading the section on the Choice and one question I have is in Egwene's dream she refers to Mat having to choose between to Aes Sedai. Could it be that it would be between two groups of women who cha channel such as the Aes Sedai and the Seanchan damnae. It was just that Egwene could have interpreated it as two Aes Sedai but its a dream and open to interpreation.

36

jak o shadows: 2006-02-27

I really don't get the difficulty with the song. I always thought It was fairly clear cut. But perhaps I am missing something. I always believed the song that the tinkers are looking for is the song of growing that used to be sung by aiel men, Ogier and the green men during the Age of legends. If this is the song, then it is already well known by Rand, ever clan chief and all the wise ones as seen in Rhuiden. The reason it hasn't been found already is that the aiel won't talk to the tinkers.As to what the 'trees flowering around Perrin' means, I don't have a clue. I always found it unlikely that he would be the song finder. Of course with all the green men dead the song is pretty useless.

Perrin walking off the cliff also seems pretty self explanatiory to me. It refers to Perrins character. His determination to do what needs to be done. I doubt very much that he will turn to the way of the leaf, he knows his duty and will do what needs to be done. He is Rands bannerman. Bannermen do not just carry banners, they enforce dicipline and maintain troop morale, they are the front line officers. If the troops respect a bannerman they will follow where he leads and they will hold the line at his word. Perrin has shown that he leads his troops from the front. In MHO Perrin is not a stategist but rather the front line gereral, the bannerman.

The connection between Egwene and Galad/Berelain is Gawayn. If Egwene marries and bonds Gawayn, that would make herself and Galad brother and sister in Law. If Berelain and Galad get it together she would be a sister in law to Berelain. Of course the hawk in the vision could be something to do with the Seanchan and if so I don't have a clue what it means.

I agree that Egwene will be the pivotal character in the battle for the white tower. Either the rebels will be attacked and she will rally the tower to come to the aid of their sisters thereby reuniting the white tower. Or she will bring the rebels to the aid of the tower if it is attacked with the same outcome. That will consilidate her position as the true amyrlin seat.

Don't have a clue what the second hurting will be but I doubt it will be pleasant.

37

jussery: 2006-02-27

Hi - first post.

Just wanted to add a thought regarding Rand and his Fisher-King status.

I don't think he is going to literally become a beggar on the street. I think the visions are symbolic in nature. Rand represents the key to all the scheming and mechananations (I made up that word) that are going on, just like the Fisher-King in Moridin's game does. It is simply a symbol of his importance, the visions don't predict anything specific.

38

Githraine: 2006-02-28

>>>>>>**"death beyond death" means he will be balefired. This is because it not just just kills you but also destroys your soul, so you won't get born again.**

Yes, that is exactly how balefire works...

<<<<<<<

No, Balefire does not destroy the soul. RJ has explaned it many times.

BFed people can be reborn, just not put into a new body BC the Dark One misses his opportunity to 'catch' the soul.

39

Ishamael666: 2006-02-28

I'd always thought "finding the song" was metaphorical, and meant that Perrin would live peacefully after the Last Battle. The Tinkers' concept of a singular song seems to be all they have left of the growing songs from the AoL, but there's nothing to indicate there was one singular song. To reference Hindu imagery, Rand is the Destroyer (obvious, I hope), Mat is the Preserver (old memories, old blood, etc.), and Perrin is the Builder (developing the Two Rivers-the only area to show significant growth during the course of the books).

40

JakOShadows: 2006-02-28

jussery:

If what you are saying is true, then why are there so many things hinting at their direct similarities right not. Let's look at the ailment the fisher-king supposedly has; he was a wound on his side and wears a bandage over his eyes. Doesn't that compare a lot to Rand, except for the missing hand, but that could be easily hidden if its on spot that was wounded. So there is an obvious relationship that RJ wanted us to see, not just figurative. Now I don't know how or when he'll become a beggar, I don't think it can be dismissed that easily. And we have seen him go into disguise before in WH, so we know that it could come into his calculations.

41

arcaneix: 2006-03-01

i think the seed is the seanchean and that whatever wrong they will right is the same thing that made hawkwing hate aes sedai.maybe its the oath rod.maybe its warder bonding.or maybe its the servants medding in kingdoms affairs.i will have to reread but i think hawking found something and fixed it in his war,but now they are doing it again.

42

Ishamael666: 2006-03-02

The reason Hawkwing hated Aes Sedai is because of his "advisor" Jalwin Moerad a.k.a. Ishamael. Prior to that, Hawkwing was on decent terms with the Aes Sedai.

Yes, the Seanchan are the seed. That was settled in Great Hunt. The "ancient wrong" could be any number of things the Shadow has done, since the Seanchan look like they'll supply a large military force at Tarmon Gai'don.

43

JakOShadows: 2006-03-02

arcaneix:

If you are talking about the reason Hawkwing started the war with AS, it was partially due to the fact that they were using him to gain power by gaining high positions in governor positions. The amrylin was deposed at the time for that, and only one person before had been deposed since the breaking. So what ever it was, in BWB its not exactly clear, it was a fairly big deal. And not to mention he had Ishy as a close advisor, so he was definitely manipulated by him too. Not to mention Ishy controlled the BA, so you could say he was playing both sides of the board at that time period too. In short, the solution to the seanchan problem will be a lot different than what happened to Hawkwing. And it will be a lot more ardurous, as it is such a prevalant belief now, where as with Hawkwing it was only him personally.

44

jak o shadows: 2006-03-03

I have been pondering the viewings and visions of Rand as the beggar and its parallels with the fisher king as mentioned by Moridin. As with all RJ’s use of mythology it is altered and as he says himself reverse engineered, therefore it is fairly clear that this is not exactly the Fisher King of Arthurian legend. That being said there are similarities and these can perhaps help explain what RJ is getting at.

Firstly I think that these visions are symbolic or metaphorical. I do not think we will see Rand hobbling around in beggar’s clothes bleeding and blind. The fisher king of legend is also known as the maimed king and his incapacity is directly linked to the wasting of the land. In the WoT the Dragon and the land are tied, so as Rand becomes more and more maimed the land becomes more and more wasted and damaged. The pattern is breaking down, food is spoiling, the dead are walking and Rand is becoming more damaged, the lands’ suffering is reflected in the Dragons suffering.

In the Fisher king legend he is the keeper of the grail which is needed to restore him but cannot be used until a hero finds the grail and asks the right questions. In the WoT version the Fisher is blind. I believe that this is symbolic of Rand’s quest for answers, in order to get the answers he needs, it is essential he asks the right questions (Min reading philosophy will come into play here). As we do not have a Grail it is the answers that become important to restore the maimed king and thereby the land.

In the WoT version the Fisher king is wounded in the side (a reference to Jesus and the spear of destiny) however in the Arthurian legend the fisher kings wound is most often in the thigh or groin. This is RJ reverse engineering and combining of legends. The spear of destiny has a duality, causing wounds that won’t heal and at the same time having the ability to heal. The wound on Rand’s side won’t heal but Rand’s blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul has the power to heal the land. The fisher king of legend is also in constant pain just as Rand is.

The Fisher king legend represents cycles, rebirth and restoration. The Dragon also represents rebirth and restoration. Rand is the Fisher king, he is the blind seeking illumination, he is the spear of destiny, the wounded and healing and he is the physical manifestation of the lands suffering.

Why the beggar I hear you ask. Well, in the bible Jesus revels himself to the blind beggar. In the WoT the truth and the path to salvation will be revealed to the Fisher i.e. Rand.

45

timmooo: 2006-04-06

Very interesting. With the "beggers staff" that could have meant the wound ba'alzamon gave Rand over falme. This would relate to the fisher holding his side

46

callmeISHAMAEL: 2006-08-14

**Moridin: "The Fisher was always worked as a man, a bandage blinding his eyes and one hand pressed to his side, a few drops of blood dripping through his fingers. The reasons, like the source of the name, were lost in the mist of time."**That's Rand, that is. We know his eyes are having trouble(thus the bandage covering them), and the wound in his side is always breaking open.(Thus the hand to his side with blood dripping through. Just thought I'd say.

Oh, and by the way, what makes you think "the seed shall slay the ancient wrong" means the Seanchan?

47

Morsmordre: 2006-10-09

H1 All!!!I know I'm new here, but I have something in mind.As I've been reading some of the posts I thought of something very curious..The number 103 when Lews Therin imprisoned the DO - this is the number of all man who could channel the Power with Lews Therin as their leader.They imprisoned the DO.But this number is the same like the Ashaman who are connected to Aez Sedai and Aez Sedai connected to Ashaman - 51 on the both sides; that makes 102 channelers.There is only one channaler who is missing, right?But NO, it's Rand ;) I dunno if someone else wrote about that (it's quite possible) but the number of channalers is the same 103 with Lews Therin ahead in the Legendary Age and 103 with Rand ahead in the Last Battle.The point is that I think that Rand is going to lead the bound Ashaman and Aez Sedai.He will crush the DO's army (with their help, of course) and then he will have to face the DO in the Pit of Doom.I read a theory that the DO will obsess him or something like that..That's possible but I think it'll be very difficult for Alivia to kill the DO in Rand's body - the possibility of that to happen is 1:100000...Perhaps I'm wrong about the role of Ashaman and Aez Sedai and their number (103 with Rand) but if anyone has another suggestion...I'll be happy to see the post :)

48

JakOShadows: 2006-10-10

Mosmordre:

Welcome. That's an interesting tid bit there. I don't know what bearing it will have on events, but good catch.

49

ScorpiOve: 2006-10-12

I have some thoughts on Rand, Mat and Perrin which I maybe out to write down and make a theory of my own with, but for now I will adress the beggar.

As the fisher king is blinded I think Rand is blind too. Just not litterary blind. As is now he only see his goal, using just about anyone and feeling sorry for himself and steeling himself.

As both Cadsuane and the Wise Ones have said being strong isn't the same as being hard.

That is what Cadsuane will teach him eventually. To open his eyes and feel once more. To cry and feel joy and not dwell on those who died for him. Getting Moiraine back, the top name of his List of Woe, might pull away the bottom stone in his wall and make it all crumble.

50

BrainFireBob: 2006-10-13

I disagree that not all of these have been fulfilled. To whit:

**Scouring through various sites, I collected through all the prophecies that I think haven’t been fulfilled yet (I know, controversial!). I’ve grouped them together into some of the events I think will happen in A Memory of Light. The disclaimer is that this is all hearsay and I may have most, if not all of it wrong. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that, and posting anyway.

So you’ll find the event title, the quotes regarding that event, and the (generally misguided) take on those events. Within an event, I’ve tried to order the quotes in some sort of logical progression. I’ve also tried to put the events in order, but have no real basis for most of the ordinance. There’s no real spoilers regarding KoD – there wasn’t much prophecy there. Apologies for the length as well!

Prophecy Key: E – Egwene Dream’s, DP – Dark Prophecy, AP – Aiel Prophecy, G, General Prophecy, M – Min’s Viewings, P: Perrin, D: Dreamer, KP: Prophecies of the Dragon

All quotes, of course, are from the Wheel of Time books, whatever the copyright thing is.

The Song

The Quotes

E: “Perrin stepping willingly over the edge of a towering cliff while saying, "It must be done. I must learn to fly before I reach the bottom."

M: Perrin – “And trees flowering all around him.”

AP: "He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand, and he shall break them as dried twigs, yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live."

AP: "Prophecy says when the Stone of Tear falls, we will leave the Three-fold Land at last. It says we will be changed, and find again what was ours, and was lost."

AP: "When the Trollocs come out of the Blight again, we will leave the Three-fold Land and take back our places of old."

G: “…it is prophesied that a child born of a Maiden will unite the clans and return to the Aiel the greatness they knew during the Age of Legends.”**

"What was theirs" was their history- I believe Perrin stepping off the cliff was either the attack on Marlden, or becoming a leader- hence the brambles. The trees are liable to be his family- remember Loial?

The Aiel’s place of old was following the Aes Sedai/Dragon.

**Moiraine**

As said, Thom goes to rescue. And Mat deals with the Foxes and Snakes- and beats them by removing one of his eyes. Which? No one knows yet. The Snakes can see out one, the Foxes the other. Who will be deceived?

**KP (disputed): "There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he one with the land. Soul of fire, heart of stone, in pride he conquers, forcing the proud to yield. He calls upon the mountains to kneel, and the seas to give way, and the very skies to bow. Pray that the heart of stone remembers tears, and the soul of fire, love."**

Involves Rand’s choices in the Last Battle- it’s strongly implied his current Ends Justifies Means mentality will be a Not Good Thing.

**M: "I've read you, Egwene.... I see things I am sure link you to Rand, and Perrin, and Mat, and - yes, even Galad."

M: Berelain: "Just a man in white who will make her fall head over heels."

E: “A golden hawk stretched out its wing and touched her, and she and the hawk were tied together somehow; all she knew was that the hawk was female.”

The Take

I’ve split these quotes into three sections. The first has to do with Galad and Berelain. If Egwene is going to have something to do with Galad (who sees that the Whitecloaks must unite with Aes Sedai to fight the Last Battle) and Berelain is going to team up with Galad, then Berelain may have something to do with Egwene. Lots of ifs, but, you know. I’m positing that this will have something to do with the Battle for the White Tower.**

Interesting. Hadn’t considered that was where the Whitecloaks were going.

**Battle For The White Tower – Part 2

The Quotes

E: “Straps at waist and shoulder held her tightly to the block, and the headsman's axe descended, but she knew that somewhere someone was running, and if they ran fast enough, the axe would stop.”

E: “In another he began swinging a door closed on her, and she knew if that narrowing gap of light vanished, she was dead.”

E: “Twice, right on top one another, she dreamed of taking him by the shoulders and trying to turn him to face the other way against his will. Once he brushed her hands away roughly; the other time, she was somehow stronger than he. The two blended together hazily.”

M: “Gawyn - Gawyn kneeling at Egwene's feet with his head bowed, and Gawyn breaking Egwene's neck, first one then the other, as if either could be the future. She had never seen that fluttering back and forth, as though not even the viewing could tell which would be the true future. Worse, she had a feeling near to certainty that it was what she had done this day that had turned Gawyn toward those two possibilities.”

E: “Gawyn - Him kneeling while she cupped his head in her hands.”

The Take

The second set have to do with Gawyn. My guess is that Egwene is going to annoy the living bejeebers out of Elaida to the extent that her death will be ordered. Gawyn shows up to find the woman of his dreams opposing the woman of his choosing. What’ll happen then? Gawyn rescues her, and she bonds him – but whether that leads to a long life or not is a whole ‘nother thang.**

It’s his love for her or his honor. He’s tied himself to the Tower, and has his brother’s (and sister’s) issues with the law. So, generally agreed. Perhaps with his anger that neither Elayne nor Egwene saw fit to inform him of their loyalties before he killed men he honored and respected.

**Battle For The White Tower – Part 3

The Quotes

D: “The land divided by the return..”

E: “A small white plinth stood centered in that circle, supporting an oil-lamp made of clear glass. The flame on that lamp burned bright and steady, without flickering. It was white too. Suddenly a pair of birds flashed out of the mist, two ravens black as night. Streaking across the spire-top, they struck the lamp and flew on without so much as a pause. The lamp spun and wobbled, dancing around atop the plinth, flinging off droplets of oil. Some of those drops caught fire in midair and vanished. Others fell around the short column, each supporting a tiny, flickering white flame. And the lamp continued to wobble on the edge of falling.”

E: “She had dreamed of the Seanchan, too, of women in dresses with lightning bolts woven on their breasts, collaring a long line of women who wore Great Serpent rings, forcing them to call lightning against the White Tower.”

E: “She was struggling up a narrow, rocky path along the face of a towering cliff. Clouds surrounded her, hiding the ground below and the crest above, yet she knew that both were very far away. [...] Abruptly, the ledge dropped away from under her with the crack of crumbling stone, and she caught frantically at the cliff, fingers scrabbling to find a hold. [...] Suddenly a woman appeared, clambering down the sheer side of the cliff out of the clouds, making her way as deftly as if she were walking down stairs. There was a sword strapped to her back. Her face wavered, never settling clearly, but the sword seemed as solid as the stone. The woman reached Egwene's level and held out one hand. "We can reach the top together," she said in a familiar drawling accent.”**

These fit your analysis. This, however,

**D: The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."**

Refers to the fact the tarmon gai’don is not a be-all end-all.

**F: "The White Tower will be whole again, except for remnants cast out and scorned, whole and stronger than ever. **

Suck it up, Elaida!

**E: “Rand confronting her, and the women with her, and one of them was a Seanchan.”**

Carlinya may be a Listener.

**The Second Hurting

The Quotes

M: “Twice he's (Perrin) going to have to be there, or you... If he's not, something bad will happen to you. Very bad. It will happen if he is not there, but nothing I saw said it won't because he is. It will be very bad, Rand.”

M: “Rand in chains, and it was he who was screaming.”

M: Rand – “a bloody hand and white-hot iron”

M: Elayne – “A severed hand, not hers”

M: "above Elayne's, a red-hot iron and an axe."

M: "And there's something...dark...in the images I saw around Lord Davram."**

I actually think the first was when Rand was kidnapped by the Tower Aes Sedai- like wolves, Perrin can tell a female channeller on sight. Perhaps he could uncover Semirhage?

Rand was in chains (figuratively) in the chest.

White-hot iron implies balefire, to me, but we’ll see. Certainly an interesting interpretation.

**

The land divided by the return..”

KP: "The north shall he tie to the east, and the west shall be bound to the south."

D: “Bair and Amys dreamed of you cutting the wetlands in two with a sword.”

KP: He "shall bind the nine moons to serve him."**

He’s making a deal with the Seanchan- they keep what they have, he keeps what he has, it’s a truce (perhaps an armed one) that divides the wetlands in two- by conquest.

**M: Rand – “a beggar's staff”

P: “Perrin thought it was Rand. He wore rags and a rough cloak, and a bandage covered his eyes.”

Moridin: "The Fisher was always worked as a man, a bandage blinding his eyes and one hand pressed to his side, a few drops of blood dripping through his fingers. The reasons, like the source of the name, were lost in the mist of time."**

Maybe he escapes as a beggar. I always rather thought it represented him as he is now- running around, everything he has a handout, afraid to channel. Or Rand on his way to Tear.

**F: “The Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire, and sisters will walk its grounds."

E: “Logain, laughing, stepped across something on the ground and mounted a black stone; when she looked down, she thought it was Rand's body he had stepped over, laid out on a funeral bier with his hands crossed at his breast, but when she touched his face, it broke apart like a paper puppet.”

M: "It's Cadsuane. She is going to teach you something, you and the Asha'man. All the Asha'man, I mean. It's something you have to learn, but I don't know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You aren't going to like it at all."**

Depends on what Cadsuane is going to teach them.

**E: “Rand building a wall with him on one side and her on the other, her and Elayne and others she could not make out. "It has to be done," he was saying as he piled up stones. "I'll not let you stop me now."**

Shutting people out.

**E: “She stood before an immense wall, clawing at it, trying to tear it down with her bare hands. It was not made of brick or stone, but countless thousands of discs, each half white and half black, the ancient symbol of the Aes Sedai, like the seven seals that had once held the DO's prison shut...the wall stood strong however she beat at it. She could not tear it down. Maybe it was the symbol that was important. Maybe it was the AS she was trying to tear down, the White Tower. Maybe....”**

Maybe it’s symbolic of her changing traditions.

**E: “In another a woman, face shrouded in shadow, beckoned him (Mat) toward great danger; Egwene did not know what, only that it was monstrous.”

E: “Mat, weighing two Aes Sedai on a huge set of balance scales, and on his decision depended....She could not say what; something vast; the world, perhaps.”

AE: “To give up half the light of the world to save the world.”

E: “Mat, placing his own left eye on a balance scale.”

M: Mat – “..an eye on a balance scale…”

E: “Mat throwing dice with blood streaming down his face, the wide brim of his hat pulled low so she could not see his wound”**

Tuon (veiled) may be beckoning Mat- or maybe Moiraine from Finnland.

The two Aes Sedai are, I believe, his decision to rescue Teslyn and Edesina- he need not be weighing the Aes Sedai against each other. This decision led directly to his marriage to Tuon, etc.

Rand re-learning laughter and tears is essentially to him winning, and Moiraine is essential to that end. Mat loses an eye saving Moiraine.

No one knows which eye he’ll lose- see above.

**M: Mat – “…a horn..”**

Linked to the Horn.

** F: "The very first thing Elaida had ever Foretold, while still an Accepted - and had known enough even then to keep to herself - was that the Royal line of Andor would be the key to defeating the Dark One in the Last Battle."**

If during the first year she was Accepted, this easily refers to Rand, since Tigraine was Daughter-Heir at the time. Of course, Luc, Elayne, Gawyn, and Galad are all also of this bloodline.

**AP: "He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand, and he shall break them as dried twigs, yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live."

AP: He will come from Rhuidean at dawn, and tie you together with bonds you cannot break. He will take you back, and he will destroy you."**

Well, yes, fulfilled (mainly) in tSR- the few saved may well be the Shaido who make it back to the Waste to try and live an unchanged, ji’e’toh life.

**DP: Death shall sow, and summer burn, before the Great Lord comes.

Death shall reap, and bodies fail, before the Great Lord comes.

Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great Lord comes.

Now the Great Lord comes.**

Death sowing=the weird stuff we’re seeing, or perhaps a reference to Moridin.

Summer burning is the unnatural summer.

Bodies fail=weird bug thing.

Again the seed slays ancient wrong- your guess is as good as any. Darkfriends (execution of Suroth)? Do they catch a Forsaken?

**Rand deliberately breaks the seals and brings on Tarmon Gaidon (which could be fairly brief if he has to confront the Dark One immediately). He then goes to Shayol Ghul for the grandstand finish we’ve all been waiting for – yea verily, it will rock. How he defeats the Dark One? Plenty of ideas, no clues.**

Yeah

**P: The man who channels stands alone.

He gives his friends for sacrifice.

Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to life eternal.

Which will he choose? Which will he choose?

What hand shelters? What hand slays?**

Perhaps fulfilled in tGH. Perhaps a reference to Rand now. Interestingly, Perrin and Mat are also referred to as his “hands.”

**E: “Rand, wearing different masks, until suddenly one of those false faces was no longer a mask, but him.**

Yes. He IS hard now, instead of just acting that way. He’s lost his empathy.

**M: Rand: "I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and....one of you dies, and one doesn't."**

Balefire in Shadar Logoth. Moridin. Etc.

**M: "Rand, I like Alivia. But she is going to kill you." Rand replies, "Helping me die isn't the same as killing me. Unless you've changed your mind about what you saw."

M: “Three women standing over a funeral bier with you on it, black rock wet with blood.”

KP: "The blood of the Dragon Reborn on the rocks of Shayol Ghul will free mankind from the Shadow."

KP: "Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth.

Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.

In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."**

Random thought- wouldn’t it be awesome if Ishamael was Lews’s kinsman?

Still Alivia will help with the death-deceit/balefiring three days back.

**KP: "Twice and twice shall he be marked,

twice to live and twice to die.”**

Right now, Rand’s received his marks. He’s also conceivably lived twice, and died once (Lews). If the Lews part dies again, prophecy met.

**JP: The Jendai Prophecy says the Sea Folk will serve the Coramoor. It says the Coramoor will bring the Sea Folk to glory - all the seas of the world will be theirs.**

I’ve become more and more of the opinion that Mat is the Coramoor. He’s the one who’s saved the Sea Folk and their Windfinders from slavery. AND Aes Sedai serve him.

**KP: "For he shall come like the breaking dawn, and shatter the world again with his coming, and make it anew."**

Go-go shake’n’bake industrial revolution.

**M: Lan: “Seven ruined towers around his head, and a babe in a cradle holding a sword.”**

GOOD catch on this one- Min sees the FUTURE, not the past. Nynaeve and Lan’s babe.

**M: “A fire-haired novice and a guard - they would be married soon. There was a farm in that pair's future, and a swarm of children.”

M: "You will be punished for what happens here today, Harine, but not so much as you fear, I think. At least, one day you will be the Mistress of the Ships."

M: “Caraline and Darlin - Darlin will die in bed and Caraline will survive him.”

M: “Nesune - She will found a library and receive honors and fame.”**

Fun.

**M: “Aviendha would have Rand's babies, too. Four of them at once! Something was odd about that, though. The babies would be healthy, but still something odd.”**

Min follows this by noting that she wishes someone could do for her what she does for others- since the sisterhood weave makes what happens to one happen to all, it’s not unlikely MIN and Elayne are both carrying twins (if Min’s not pregnant by now, then WOW), and Aviendha in a weird way will be their mother too….

Or, Rand and Aviendha have children with Rand’s new body. Hence, Rand’s and not-Rand’s.

**E: “...a man riding on a black stallion. Gawyn. Then she was standing in the road in front of him, and he reined in. Not because he saw her...but the road that had been straight now forked right where she stood, running over tall hills so no one could see what lay beyond. She knew, though. Down one fork was his violent death, down the other, a long life and a death in bed. On one path, he would marry her, on the other, not. She knew what lay ahead, but not which way led to which. Suddenly he did see her, or seemed to, and smiled, and turned his horse along one of the forks...”**

Ties into the other, though.

Overall, bang-up job- but some of these have been fulfilled already.

51

vardene: 2006-10-14

jakoshadows,

the holy grail could be what the wise ones said ely and nynaeve would locate in ebou dar or the seals, or the rods of dominion in TEoTW. there are many choices for that.we may not know until after AMOL.

52

Tantor The Holy: 2006-10-17

Perrin's broken crown dosn't have to belong to the borderlands. It could be his homeland of Manatherin(I propably butchered the name). Which also means he is the "Wolf King" from on of the Seachan Prophecy.

53

JakOShadows: 2006-10-21

Tantor:

I would say that is possible, but in KoD he makes a promise to the Seanchan to drop all claims of rebuilding Manetheran. So if it does happen, it won't be a concerted effort by him, it will be the workings of the pattern.

54

entraety: 2007-08-18

Here's a Thought:

The ancient wrong could be the evil that is left in Padan Fain and his daggar from Shadar Logoth. Though I dont see how the seed (the Seanchan) will slay him, I have no clue.

55

greyhawk121: 2007-11-23

There was a reference by one of the Foresaken about split personalities -- that's significant. Rand and Lews Therin are a split personality, and must be united; that's the "death" that Rand will undergo, to become the new merged personality.

That's what Alicia will help him with -- she'll help him merge. She'll help Rand die, so that he'll live.

56

Davian93: 2007-11-26

****Perrin's broken crown dosn't have to belong to the borderlands. It could be his homeland of Manatherin(I propably butchered the name). Which also means he is the "Wolf King" from on of the Seachan Prophecy. ****

The Broken Crown is merely the name of the crown of Saldaea much like Illian had the Laurel Crown and Andor has the Rose Crown etc, etc. There is no hidden meaning about it.