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livia Will Balefire Moridin (After He Merges with Rand)

by sam: 2005-10-31 | 3.67 out of 10 (6 votes)

Recent Categories: How Will It End?

There are two viable theories out there right now that I think would benefit from some comparative analysis. I’m actually going to hijack my research from the two theories, so I apologize if people think my (intentional) attempt to create a new theory by bastardizing two existing theories is misplaced.

Existing theory:

(1): Alivia Will Balefire Rand's Killer After Tarmon Gai'don Existing theory

(2): The Merging of Rand and Moridin

I find certain elements of both of these theories compelling and I here propose the following new theory: Alivia will balefire Moridin (who has merged with Rand) Ozymandias offers the following quotation and analysis in his “Merging of Rand and Moridin” theory:

“TITLE: Crown of Swords, CHAPTER: 33 – A Bath “It was you and another man. I couldn’t make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge in to one another… I don’t know what it means, Rand, except that one of you dies.” Rand interprets this to mean he and Lews Therin will merge and one will die. This is not, however, so certain. Rand only thinks this because he has not yet gone through the whole balefire incident. I think that this man he merges with almost HAS to be Moridin.”

I want to juxtapose this quote with the following from amazinglarry’s “Aliva Will Balefire Rand’s Killer After Tarmon Gai’don”:

(a)“In WH Ch. 25, Min has a viewing that Alivia will help Rand die. "You said she was going to help me die," he said quietly. "Those were your words." How would he feel at dying?"

(b) “In KoD, however, we find out that Rand asked the Aelfinn how to win TG and survive, and they told him “to live, you must die.”

(c)“In TPOD Ch. 15, Egwene dreams of “Rand, wearing different masks, until suddenly one of those false faces was no longer a mask, but him.”

Many have suggested that Rand and Moridin must duel to the death, as Rand is the champion of Light and Moridin is the Nae’blis, but not all struggles end in the death of one party. Much of the series operates in a classic dialectic (a theory in its own right): thesis, antithesis, mutual recognition. Think about where Rand is taking the Aes Sedai: there is thesis (female Aes Sedai), antithesis (male Aes Sedai), and mutual recognition (the unified Aes Sedai symbol of the AoL). I doubt I’m stating anything new to most readers of the series.

The merger of Rand and Moridin represents the “mutual recognition” aspect of their conflict. Rand and Moridin have faced off several times and Moridin (as Ishmael) even died on one occasion. Yet he returns and the conflict continues. Why? They have not resolved the two terms of the dialectic. Uniting the male and female Aes Sedai resolves a dialectic internal to the Light (as does removing the taint, perhaps more strongly so). But the dialectic between Light and Dark can only be resolved (until a later age) when Rand and Moridin merge.

The mechanics of how this plays out before/during Tarmon Gai’don, I will not venture. I wish to conjecture merely that Rand and Moridin not only will merge, but must merge. But can Rand survive this merger? We should think so, given what he has been told by the Aelfinn.

The next question: how can he survive? By dying. But if Rand and Moridin merge, Rand’s “dying” becomes a far simpler proposition. When Rand and Moridin merge, they are (technically) one: both are Rand, both are Moridin—they form an identity. But if they only form this identity in a technical sense, that is, if someone could distinguish the “Rand” part of the merged being from the “Moridin” part, perhaps the Moridin part could be killed.

My prediction is thus that Alivia, after (or at the end of) Tarmon Gai’don, will kill the Moridin “part” of the Rand-Moridin being. That amazinglarry suggested Alivia might use balefire has interesting implications. Perhaps Alivia will balefire Moridin so powerfully that Rand’s wounds will heal. I think it also possible that Alivia will somehow balefire Moridin enough that his effects on Lews Therin (EoTW prologue) might be undone. Perhaps that will finally allow Rand peace from Lews Therin (and fulfill Egwene’s vision that all of the masks will resolve into Rand’s true face).
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Tamyrlin: 2005-12-01

(Frenzy for Tamyrlin) Interesting. But a question for you: Can there be mutual recognition and balance without resolution? And can you have mutual resolution and balance at the same time. Balance seems to be the overarching theme of the WoT world, but how can you have balance if you remove one half of the equation?


Lord of the Dawn: 2005-12-01

I'm not quite sure I understand your last comments. If Alivia was to balefire the merged Rand & Moridin, then they would both die. They're merged, they share the same body. I also doubt that anyone could balefire them back so much without the Choedan Kal and without unraveling the Pattern.

Also, I don't really like all of this symbolism with dialectics. That does not seem a sure way to base a theory.

In my opinion, the quote "To live, you must die" states that Rand must die to continue the Pattern. Think about it - if Rand dies to seal the DO, he will be reborn again and again til the end of time. But if he fails, he will never be reborn again. The DO will win and change the Pattern, and he will die and never be re-woven. So to live again, he must sacrifice himself in this age.


Balinor: 2005-12-01

A very interesting theory. But it starts to fall apart at the end. Can anyone imagine what the consequences will be if someone could "balefire Moridin back to the Age of Legends"? Moridin (as Ishamael) has been the driving force behind the forces of the Shadow for the last three thousand years. He is responsible directly or indirectly for: the Trolloc wars, the destruction of Manetheren, he was an advisor to Artur Hawkwing (and probably the one that turned him against the Aes Sedai), the Black Ajah, and the network of Darkfriedns, just to name a few. You would be hard-pressed indeed to find a thread that has been more interwoven in the Pattern than Moridin's. By removing that thread, you would have to rewrite 3 thousand years of history! That act by itself, would probably destroy the entire pattern. (Not to mention, rewriting the entire WoT series, something Jordan is not likely to do.) And the amount of the OP a channeler would have to use to erase a thread that far back into the past is unimaginable. You might not be able to do it with BOTH of the Choedan Kal.

This doesn't mean that balefire won't be used to resolve this conflict, but not to the extent that some people have suggested.


Bayle: 2005-12-01

I am somewhat developing a new theory on this subject as well, though more regarding Rand's blindness, and the relation between Him, Moridin, and the Saa... but this idea isn't all that bad.

It is possible that perhaps their souls merge, but maybe somehow in fighting, they switch? And Killing Rand, is actually killing Moridin, Rand "Dies", blood on the rocks, etc etc, but his soul is in Moridin's body, eyes burned out by the Saa, but the prophecy is fulfilled...


bigjellybeans: 2005-12-01

Hhhhhmmm if this were to happen I would see Perring somewhere in the picture as well. He still has that to be near Rans to save him one more time as he did in LOC


Kuma: 2005-12-01

**But the dialectic between Light and Dark can only be resolved (until a later age) when Rand and Moridin merge.**

I think that this is an interesting concept, however, I'm not sure if I can agree with all the implications of a merger/balance between Light and Dark WITHIN the context of the Pattern. When the world is as it should be (ie. peaceful, the Pattern balanced, the OP untainted, as per the AoL or the "moment of creation"), the Dark One is completely sealed away in a prison outside of the Pattern, not united with it. Perhaps one could argue that his being outside of the Pattern is his proper place as he balances the Creator, but certainly not that he belongs as an integral part INSIDE the Pattern. The problem with stretching the situation to fit a rigid dialectic's synthetic process is that it assumes that there can BE synthesis/merger of the Light and Dark. While I can appreciate the Creator spawning his own antithesis at the moment of creation, I'm not sure that they are perfectly equal, since the Creator had the power to seal the Dark One away. Beyond that, I believe that Rand and Moridin truly merging has about as much chance of happening as the Dark One and the Creator merging.

Consider the following: circular and cyclical patterns are connotative of life, change, hope and motion, whereas linear direction suggests the static, the stagnant, despair of the foregone conclusion and unchanging death. I think the dialectic/synthesis is exactly what the Dark One is trying to achieve. If he succeeds, the circular Pattern of the Wheel is essentially broken--it becomes the linear continuance of dialectic rather than "an Age long past, an Age yet to come." This is why Ishmael (aptly named the Betrayer of Hope) and Lanfear are so keen on subverting Rand to the Shadow, so driven to control the fisher-king. They understand that this is the ultimate triumph for the Dark. LTT's moment of clarity right at the end (as he created Dragonmount) was Ishmael's big mistake--it allowed the champion of Light to put himself beyond the reach of the Shadow. That's all the Dragon had to do to maintain/preserve the balance--refuse to submit/merge/synthesize, break the Wheel and begin the dialectic.

What does this mean for Rand as the Dragon Reborn? Death, certainly in the short term, but who can say what will happen once he is beyond the reach of the Dark One--perhaps after the prison is perfecty restored?

Hmmm. Must think on this more. I certainly wish I had access to Herid Fel's books sometimes...


Paendrag: 2005-12-01

I think it also possible that Alivia will somehow balefire Moridin enough that his effects on Lews Therin (EoTW prologue) might be undone.

The most people have been balefired back was a few minutes. I'm thinking balefiring back an hour is quite difficult if not nearly impossible. I'm pretty sure balefiring back 2000 years IS impossible, even if there are 72 of the strongest male and female channelers linked.


Tristin: 2005-12-01

Hahahahaha. Following this line of thought Herid Fel is George Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel reborn...his soul either hasn't thought up his phenomenology of Spirit yet or did so on another turning.


JakOShadows: 2005-12-02

It's an interesting idea, but as many people have said, I don't think it quite has everything straight. The DO and creator will never merge. They co-exist, and that is as far as they will go. Once the DO gains control of the pattern he'll imprison the creator, but never destroy him. And most likely make it linear too. But they will never understand each other. And Rand and Demandred won't merge that strongly either. In fact, its my opinion they won't merge at all, they will just gain a heightened awareness of eachother. So what you are suggesting is fairly far fetched.


Traveller: 2005-12-03

I like what you are saying, but it seems a little haphazard to join these two theories in such a way- the answer you give of them merging then Alivia killing Moridin doesn't really fit with "to live you must die" because in the way you have said, and doesn't die at all- his extrabitthathasjoined him dies and he is lft alone.

I like what you are saying with the whole thesis, antithesis, mutual recognition thing, because I don't really like the thought of a "simple" duel between Moridin and Rand. Sure it wouldn't be simple asi in there would be lots of shocking new moves and sword fighting and sudden attacks from behing etc, but that would simply be a slightly more fanciful version of every fight Rand has had with any Forsaken before now. This has to be different. Very different.


deathonhrzn: 2008-06-26

I think it won't quite be that way, if you recall when Rand Balefired Rahvin it onlly sent him back 20 minutes at the most yet it was extremely huge balefire. A balefire big enough to send him back that far would undo the world itself, not just the whole of the Pattern.