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and, Moridin, Luc and Isam--The Key to Rand's survival

by Hank McCoy: 2006-01-10 | 5.53 out of 10 (17 votes)

Recent Categories: LTT, Rand, and Moridin

The "death" of Rand Al’Thor

Many ideas have been written about the prophesized death of Rand. Here is my take on it:

Theory:

Rand and Moridin merge like Luc and Isam

Moridin’s body is the host

Alivia (some tie-in—the only part I can not figure out)

Rand fights with Moridin for control of the body and wins

Rand’s body is taken away for burial by his tripod of women

Rand lives out his life in anonymity in Moridin’s body

I do not want to speculate on the details. There are too many possibilities but I think the text supports the main points. I feel that wild speculation about what could happen will only weaken my theory and cause people to disregard the evidence I am about to present.

Evidence:

There have been many ideas and theories proposed regarding Luc’s involvement at the Last Battle. Some are very involved and some are very simple. One of my favorite in-depth postulations involves Luc switching sides and saving Rand at the Last Battle. This is a favorite of mine because it is so overplayed. Everyone has already seen this in Return of the Jedi when Darth Vader, AKA Anakin Skywalker, reverted to the light and saved his son from the clutches of the evil Emperor Palpatine. Simply put, I do not see Robert Jordan heading down this path. Some of the more simple ideas floating around about Luc are that he will die at the Last Battle in the Pit of Doom and fulfill the prophecy of “Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed. Once for mourning, once for birth. Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul. In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow.” I, however, do not agree with this interpretation because Luc does not fit with “Once for mourning, once for birth” amongst other things.

So, what is Luc’s purpose? He is involved in the story for a reason greater than the Shadow’s assassin. It is my position that Luc’s importance, aside from the events that transpired in Andor following his departure, is his merger with Isam. Eledia has this Foretelling: "The very first thing Elaida had ever Foretold, while still an Accepted - and had known enough even then to keep to herself - was that the Royal line of Andor would be the key to defeating the Dark One in the Last Battle." Eledia assumes this relates to Elayne. Readers generally assume it is Rand because of his mother. However, it could also include Luc.

NOTE--The evidence supporting this theory is based entirely upon the published works by Robert Jordan.

Some commonalities and background information:

In A Crown of Swords, Chapter 41 Rand and Moridin form a link when their streams of balefire touch. In a Crown of Swords, Chapter 33 Min has this viewing "I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and....one of you dies, and one doesn't." At the time, both Rand and the reader assumed the other man was Lews. However, in Knife of Dreams, Chapter 21 it is clear that the other man is Moridin. “The face of the man from Shadar Logoth floated in his head for a moment. He looked furious. And near to sicking up. Without any doubt he was aware of Rand, and Rand of him. Move a hair in any direction, and they would touch.” Rand is sure that when he is viewing images from Moridin that if he was to move an inch in any direction they would merge. This cannot be taken for fact because Rand has been wrong in the past. However, when combined with additional information gleaned from the books it gives us an interesting possibility.

This is where Luc comes in. What is known of Luc comes from bits and pieces of text. Gitara sent Luc into the Blight to find his destiny. Luc’s destiny was to merge with Isam. How this happened is not privy to us readers but one can assume the Dark One did it. In the Dark Prophecy from The Great Hunt the Shadow eludes to Slayer’s origins.

“Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom. Isam waited in the high passes. The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill. One did live, and one did die, but both are. The Time of Change has come."

The most substantial line from the Prophecy is “One did live, and one did die, but both are.” This is amazingly similar to Min’s viewing “one of you dies, and one doesn't." On a related side note, we saw in the Shadow Rising that Luc’s body is the host. In TAR Slayer can assume both Isam’s form as well as Luc’s.

The most information we have about Luc comes from several paragraphs in Lord of Chaos:

Lord of Chaos, Chapter 16

Tellings of the Wheel

"Gitara?" A wonder he did not sound strangled. He had heard that name more than once. It had been an Aes Sedai named Gitara Moroso, a woman with the Foretelling, who announced that the Dragon had been Reborn on the slopes of Dragonmount, and so set Moiraine and Siuan on their long search. It had been Gitara Moroso who years before that told "Shaiel" that unless she fled to the Waste, telling no one, and became a Maiden of the Spear, disaster would fall on Andor and the world.

Dyelin nodded, a touch impatiently. "Gitara was counselor to Queen Mordrellen," she said briskly, "but she spent more time with Tigraine and Luc, Tigraine’s brother, than with the Queen. After Luc rode north, never to return, whispers said Gitara had convinced him that his fame lay in the Blight, or his fate. Others said it was that he would find the Dragon Reborn there, or that the Last Battle depended on him going. That was about a year before Tigraine disappeared. Myself, I doubt Gitara had anything to do with it, or with Luc. She stayed the Queen’s counselor until Mordrellen died. From heartbreak over Tigraine on top of Luc, so it was said. Which began the Succession, of course." She glanced toward the others, who were shifting their feet and frowning with suspicion and impatience, but she could not resist adding one more thing. "You would have found a different Andor, without that. Tigraine queen, Morgase only High Seat of House Trakand, Elayne not born at all. Morgase married Taringail once she had the throne, you see. Who can say what else would be changed?"

Watching her join the others and go, he thought of one thing that would have changed. He would not be in Andor, for he would not have been born. Everything folded back into itself, in endless circles. Tigraine went to the Waste in secret, which made Laman Damodred cut down Avendoraldera, a gift of the Aiel, to make a throne, an act which brought the Aiel across the Spine of the World to kill him – that had been their only goal, though the nations called it the Aiel War – and with the Aiel came a Maiden named Shaiel, who died giving birth. So many lives changed, lives ended, so she could give birth to him at the proper time and place and die doing it. Kari al’Thor was the mother he remembered, if dimly, yet he wished he could have known Tigraine or Shaiel or whatever she wanted to call herself, even if only for a little while. Just to have seen her."

Now for some information about Rand

It is well known that Rand’s body has taken a beating in the last eleven books. From the never healing wounds in his side to his amputated hand, Rand is a mess. On top of everything he has endured, it looks as if our hero is also going blind. Perin has a dream in that "Perrin thought it was Rand. He wore rags and a rough cloak, and a bandage covered his eyes." In conjunction, Min had a viewing of Rand with a beggar’s staff. There is also evidence from the prologue of A Path of Daggers that Rand, AKA the Fisher, is blind because of the bandages covering his eyes.

Finally, in Knife of Dreams Rand is attacked by Semirhage and loses his afore mentioned hand. The attack also damages his vision. A transfer to Mordin’s body works in Rand’s favor by, for the most part, restoring him to pre Eye of the World condition. Rand and Moridin are almost identical in strength in the One Power. Their size is similar. Both are tall; almost the same height and both are large and muscular (Moridin is described as being more muscular). This is from A Crown of Swords, Chapter 41 and is Rand’s description of Moridin. "His head and shoulders came above the floor, and he could see the other man, a big fellow little older than he, with hair black as the night and a coat black as an Asha’man’s. Rand had never seen him before." This is Moghedien’s description of Moridin (A Crown of Swords, Chapter 25). "The speaker was a tall, broad-shouldered young man in black boots and breeches and a flowing white shirt unlaced at the top, who watched her with startlingly blue eyes from a deep, cushioned armchair in front of a marble fireplace where flames danced along long logs." Their physical appearance is different.

It is also known from those who tell the truth, Aelfinn, that Rand must die in order to live.

From the Aelfinn Q&A: Q—“How can I win the Last Battle and survive?”

A—“The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one. If you would live, you must die.” The answer can be read as the two sections of the mainland, (the north + east and the south + west) must be as one. It can also be read as Moridin and Rand must be as one or Lews and Rand must be as one. This also ties in perfectly with Min’s viewing, Nicola’s Foretelling, the Aiel Dreams, and the Karaethon Cycle. Min had this viewing when she first met Rand. ". . . three women standing over a funeral bier with you on it . . ." Nicola Foretold this: "The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

Some have questioned the validity of Nicola’s Foretelling because of her actions and propensity to lie. However that may be, this Foretelling is too specific for it to be made up. Also, both Min and the Aiel Dreamers have made statements similar to Nicola’s that corroborates the Foretelling. "Melaine and Bair dreamed of you on a boat with three women whose faces they could not see, and a scale tilting first one way then the other." The Aiel also dreamed similar to the Aelfinn’s proclamation. "Bair and Amys dreamed of you cutting the wetlands in two with a sword." In the Karaethon Cycle it is prophesized that Rand shall be: "Twice and twice shall he be marked,twice to live and twice to die. Once the heron, to set his path. Twice the heron, to name him true. Once the Dragon, for remembrance lost. Twice the Dragon, for the price he must pay.”

Egwene, in turn, has a dream that eerily coincides with Moridin’s thoughts while playing sha’rah. Both involve Rand being a puppet. Egwene’s dream is "Logain, laughing, steps over something onto a black stone. It looks like Rand's body, but when she touches his face it breaks like a paper puppet." Moridin’s thought is "On the board, the Fisher stood waiting, but in the greater game, al’Thor moved already to his wishes."Could Jordan be foreshadowing that Rand, the puppet, will become the master when him and Moridin merge?

Finally, the entire mainland seems know Rand’s face. The battle at Falme began his fame and his exploits thereafter have cemented his celebrity. If Rand were to survive the Last Battle he would never know peace. People from all over would flock to him just to see the man who defeated the Shadow and saved mankind. He would be constantly hounded. That is not a life anyone would want. Besides, how do you top defeating the greatest evil known in the world? With Rand occupying Moridin’s body he would be able to live out his years in peace. Traveling eliminates the difficulty of Rand meeting up with his ladies.

Below are some other note worthy quotes:

Karaethon Cycle—

“Yet one shall be born to face the Shadow, born once more as he was born before and shall be born again, time without end. The Dragon shall be Reborn, and there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth at his rebirth. In sackcloth and ashes shall he clothe the people, and he shall break the world again by his coming, tearing apart all ties that bind. Like the unfettered dawn shall he blind us, and burn us, yet shall the Dragon Reborn confront the Shadow at the Last Battle, and his blood shall give us the Light. Let tears flow, O ye people of the world. Weep for your salvation."

"Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.
Once for mourning, once for birth.
Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.
In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

"The blood of the Dragon Reborn on the rocks of Shayol Ghul will free mankind from the Shadow."

"His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, washing away the Shadow, sacrifice for man's salvation."

Egwene’s Dreams—

"Him walking down into a great hole in a black mountain, a hole filled with a reddish glare as from vast fires below."

"Him walking toward a burning mountain, something crunching beneath his boots. She stirred and whimpered; the crunching things were the seals on the Dark One's prison, shattering with his every step. She knew it. She did not need to see them to know."

"Rand, wearing different masks, until suddenly one of those false faces was no longer a mask, but him."
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2006-02-20

Hank, thanks for putting a lot of thought into this theory, and tying it together with a variety of quotes. Now, to the theory. I think the quote about Gitara is the most compelling information regarding Luc. Jordan dropped that line about the Last Battle and Luc, casually, but it helps substantiate the idea that Luc will play a major part, considering Gitara's foretellings also led to Rand. Is it your opinion that Luc will have something to do with Rand's transfer into Moridin's body? I do like the idea that they merge, and I think the quotes regarding Rand dying fit well with this idea. But, it says two fight and one remain. Do you believe Rand will share the body with Moridin's soul, or that Rand will take over the body, and Moridin's soul will leave, or will he work out some way to swap bodies and kill Moridin?

2

Stilicho: 2006-02-20

Bravo zulu, Hank. Good theory. Good support. How like Jordan to show how it could happen with the example of Luc/Isam even if Luc has no direct role in the Rand/Moridin merge. I'm curious to see how the "Rand must die" adherents comment on this, because I agree with you and I don't see any other path as realistic at this point in the series. The Alivia connect has me wondering too...any speculation on that?

3

Leafburner: 2006-02-20

First of all – great theory! I got goose bumps while reading it. I think you’ve cracked the RJ Prophecy code.

“But, it says two fight and one remain. Do you believe Rand will share the body with Moridin's soul, or that Rand will take over the body, and Moridin's soul will leave, or will he work out some way to swap bodies and kill Moridin?”

I think Rand will encounter Luc and possibly discover the secret to controlling the body after a merge takes place. He will then fight Moridin and “lose” but really take over Moridin’s body. Then he’ll take a walk into Shayol Ghul as Moridin and surprise the Dark One. Brilliant! I can’t wait!

4

Callandor: 2006-02-20

**Eledia assumes this relates to Elayne. Readers generally assume it is Rand because of his mother. However, it could also include Luc.**

It could be but it's a division that seems pointless. Rand's mother was next in line and Rand is the Dragon Reborn who obviously will be key to defeating the Dark One in the Last Battle.

I'd say Luc could be important, but that situation refers specifically to Rand.

**At the time, both Rand and the reader assumed the other man was Lews. However, in Knife of Dreams, Chapter 21 it is clear that the other man is Moridin.**

Yes, the Third Man is Moridin, but Min's viewing of course doesn't rule out Rand and Lews Therin merging -- especially since we've seen more and more of this as the books progress (the ear thumbing and humming, the sayings from the Age of Legends, the general attitudes shared between both).

But Moridin is surely a possiblity.

**On a related side note, we saw in the Shadow Rising that Luc’s body is the host. In TAR Slayer can assume both Isam’s form as well as Luc’s.**

I could've sworn Jordan said that Slayer could be Isam in the real world as well, he just has to chose to be. I'll look for it in any case.

**On top of everything he has endured, it looks as if our hero is also going blind.**

Doesn't have to be blind to need the bandages over his eyes, but his eyes are definately having problems, whether they progress worse or not.

**also ties in perfectly with Min’s viewing, Nicola’s Foretelling, the Aiel Dreams, and the Karaethon Cycle.**

Rand really dying and his soul being able to be reborn again and again also fulfills all viewings, prophecies, Foretellings, and the Finn answers.

**Some have questioned the validity of Nicola’s Foretelling because of her actions and propensity to lie.**

That just seems silly since it's an obviously real Foretelling that was her very first.

**Egwene’s dream is "Logain, laughing, steps over something onto a black stone. It looks like Rand's body, but when she touches his face it breaks like a paper puppet." Moridin’s thought is "On the board, the Fisher stood waiting, but in the greater game, al’Thor moved already to his wishes."Could Jordan be foreshadowing that Rand, the puppet, will become the master when him and Moridin merge?**

I'd say Egwene's dream refers to Rand's eventual dealings with the Black Tower (which can easily involve a faked death), and that Moridin is simply stating that he has ways of controlling Rand's actions already.

**With Rand occupying Moridin’s body he would be able to live out his years in peace. Traveling eliminates the difficulty of Rand meeting up with his ladies.**

Rand simply being dead makes it much easier, as well as mirroring the end result of Lews Therin.

Plus, the more Rand would meet with Elayne, Aviendha, and Min the more people would get suspicious. I mean Elayne's a Queen, Aviendha will more than likely become a Wise One, who knows if Min just stays with Rand. Hard to meet with those, especially on a consistant basis, without drawing some attention.

Your Karaethon Cycle quotes don't really point one way or the other by themself, unless you want to explain them.

The only interesting thing would be that it says "Red on black", and we know Moridin's colors are red and black -- which could be interesting or absolutely nothing but coincidence.

**Do you believe Rand will share the body with Moridin's soul, or that Rand will take over the body, and Moridin's soul will leave, or will he work out some way to swap bodies and kill Moridin?**

More importantly, if they do switch bodies, what will happen to Rand? Will the Dark One be able to control his soul, since Moridin's body clearly has black cords attached to it?

5

tworiverswoman: 2006-02-21

Hank, this is really, really nice. I've seen variations of this theory floated about on the boards, but never with all the supporting quotes. I like it a lot, though I’m not yet 100% sold on it, mostly due to a personal distaste. But from the moment someone first postulated that Rand would merge with Moridin, I was certain that that was the whole REASON for Luc/Isam -- to serve as an example.

As for Alivia -- it doesn't really matter to your theory. We know her function is to "help Rand die". I can only guess that means killing Rand's body after he leaves it. How she will KNOW when is the right moment could lead to some entertaining arguments, but it isn't germane to this idea.

I have to admit I personally would be disturbed to trade my body in for one that has been driven by an enemy, but that's just a detail; unimportant. Rand would have to deal with the Saa, however; and does addiction to the True Power have a physical component? Also, the ladies might find it a tad disturbing to have their lover suddenly be a completely different man.

But to dissenting arguments: WHY would the DO merge Rand and Moridin? And he really is the only known device for such an event, as only he can transmigrate souls, to the limit of our knowledge. Or will it happen by “accident”? After all, Rand did say, “Move a hair in any direction, and they would touch.” And flow together like raindrops, one assumes?

You quoted: “The most substantial line from the Prophecy is ‘One did live, and one did die, but both are.’ … similar to Min’s viewing ‘one of you dies, and one doesn't.’“ Hmmm…, yes, it is, isn’t it? Another case of RJ foreshadowing? This is a technique he uses to great effect in a variety of places throughout the novels.

Moridin’s soul – this is the sticky point. Unless this is another one of those things that Rand figures out how to do instinctively, then only the DO can “evict” Moridin’s soul from the body. Why would it do that? Either Moridin would have to SERIOUSLY screw up and tick the DO off, or perhaps his original transmigration into the body that is now called Moridin was faulty, although there’s been no sign of such a thing. Is there a “rejection” problem with transmigrated souls, like with a transplanted organ? Wouldn’t THAT be fun?

I can’t see Rand/Moridin “sharing” the body, like Luc/Isam seem to be doing. (“Okay – I get the body next Wednesday, I have a date with one of the girls – you can have it back on Friday.” Heh.) A third option, of course, is that it is a two-way swap, NOT a sharing. When Rand moves in, Moridin moves out, and into Rand’s body. Which Alivia then kills. One hopes with balefire, or Ishidin will be BACK. Unless by this time the bore has been re-sealed, and the Dark One can no longer do his hat trick with the souls of his henchmen.

Meanwhile, what is Logain’s role in all this? What IS the glory Min spoke of: “Logain was destined for glory such as few men had dreamed of.” Egwene’s dream: "Logain, laughing, steps over something onto a black stone. It looks like Rand's body, but when she touches his face it breaks like a paper puppet." "Rand, wearing different masks, until suddenly one of those false faces was no longer a mask, but him." I think Logain is going to reclaim the title of Dragon Reborn, this time with the collusion of those in the know. This will allow Rand to fade away into obscurity, if he’s willing to. What body will he be wearing? ~shrug~.

In a children’s novel, Rand would be “repairable” – and would end the story with his lovely ladies (well, a slightly outré children’s novel, ok), and the gratitude of the world, his job complete. However, this is NOT a kid’s book, and the likelihood of Rand ending his days in a wheelchair is becoming acute. So this could very well be a way around that rather grim future.

I’ll give it an eight.

6

mako0424: 2006-02-21

I love the theory too. and i think i may have the missing piece.

Rand's soul will merge with Moridin in Moridin's body, but LTT will remain in Rand's body, and will die and seal the Bore using Alivia's help to kill him to seal the Bore forver, by losing his blood and life on the rocks of Shayol Ghul.

It does say the Dragon, and not Rand specifically, and we all know LTT is the original Dragon. Rand is the Dragon reborn. LTT would know best anyways, and bam, Alivia will know Rand is in Moridin's body and help kill LTT ro seal bore.

then the body of Rand will be taken by Elayne, Aviendha, and Min into the boat, King Arthur style, but we know and they may know at time or later on, that Rand survived, and will live in anonymity.

Brilliant!!

7

Aan-allein: 2006-02-21

Well written theory. This has always been my suspicion, I'm just a bit lazy to go digging for all the support you found. I think the Luc/Isam merger is meant as foreshadowing for what is to come for Rand. Can't wait to see Callandor's response to this. :)

8

Anubis: 2006-02-22

Hank, were you there when I brought this up in chat? You are barely scratching the surface...More to follow, but its 2 am and im incoherent.

9

Hank McCoy: 2006-02-22

Thanks for the great feedback. I am not on this board that often and I have never been in a chat session; sorry Anubis.

I had been thinking about Luc/Isam for many books. I could not figure out why he was in the series. RJ had made it clear that he is an important element in the continuity of the series but it was unclear as to what the connection was. After reading KOD and seeing ideas pop up in theories on this board and others I began to construct a theory of my own. I knew there were many quotes available and I began my search. I tried to tie into the theory a reference to Moridin’s colors but I could not find any relative quotes.

So I will try to answer some questions.

1) I think Luc/Isam is an example that merging two souls into one body is possible. By having the reader accustomed to the possibility RJ eliminates calls of deus ex machia (I hope I spelled that right).

2) I believe that Rand and Moridin’s souls could both inhabit Moridin’s body. After all, Rand and LTT are currently doing this. If they share a body Rand will have the upper hand because of his experience with LTT. A battle of wills could occur within the body or in TAR. This is not an element that I was able to develop.

3) In regards to Alivia, I still do not have any solid ideas. I have read some responses to my theory on other boards where it is speculated that instead of inhabiting one body Rand and Moridin will simply switch bodies. Some have postulated that Perrin will smell that Rand is not Rand and Alivia will kill him or use the male a’dam on him, much to the dismay of Rand’s entourage. Others have said that LTT will battle his nemesis within Rand’s body. Personally I like the tie in to Perrin. However, I think it will work differently. I believe that Perrin will be the key to identifying that Rand’s soul is inside Moridin’s body.

4) I do not know if the DO must merge Rand and Moridin. It could simple happen by itself as illustrated in Rand’s quote from KOD. However, if the DO must merge the two I would speculate that it would happen because the DO wants to control the soul of the Dragon. By placing the Dragon’s soul under the direct supervision of his Champion the DO could assume that the soul of his greatest enemy was contained and under control.

5) I think Logain’s glory is relative to the BT and Taim.

10

Zalis: 2006-02-22

This may not matter at all, but indulge me.

Could there be some possible significance to Moridin's body? Considering Ishy was transferred to this body, could it have something to do w/ the Isam/Luc scenario? Perhaps Isam's? (whoever that was, right)

Or was that too far out there to even postulate?

11

JakOShadows: 2006-02-22

It's a well thought out theory Hank. Good job. I just have a few qualms about it though. The DO had to intervene to merge Luc/Isam, so it would be a difficult thing to do by accident. The bit about Rand being able to move and little bit and be able to touch him signified that they were linked and could strongly sense each other somehow. I don't think the link will lead to a merging in Moridin's body though. Because if the DO is the only person who could do this, then it is obviously a very unnatural. The way I could see events happening is that Rand would come back through balefire, on acccident obviously, since Rand would not be likely to purposely die. But if Moridin killed Rand and someone else balefired Moridin all in a short period of time then it could be quite possible that he'll live in his own body. But I do not think the merging will ever be possible. It seems a too unnatural thing to happen in everything, and I don't think Rand would plan it this way either. He doesn't seem to take as many risks as Mat or Perrin.

Logain is also something I don't agree with. I always thought he is glory would be acting as the first tamyrlin of the next age, since Rand will most likely die or retire in some form or fashion. So he would get the glory of fixing the world's problems that Rand created in all his actions. So he doesn't have to be known as the DR in the next age.

In short, it seems like you are going with the most complicated explanation for the quotes, which might be true. But me being an engineering student will follow Occam's Razor more, and take the simplest way that would work.

12

Callandor: 2006-02-23

**1) I think Luc/Isam is an example that merging two souls into one body is possible. By having the reader accustomed to the possibility RJ eliminates calls of deus ex machia (I hope I spelled that right).**

Fain also does this as well.

And it's machina, but you asked :)

**2) I believe that Rand and Moridin’s souls could both inhabit Moridin’s body. After all, Rand and LTT are currently doing this. If they share a body Rand will have the upper hand because of his experience with LTT. A battle of wills could occur within the body or in TAR. This is not an element that I was able to develop.**

But Rand and Lews Therin are seperate personalities, not souls. Moridin/Ishamael's soul is completely different from the Dragon soul with Rand's personality and Lews Therin's personality.

Could both souls inhabit the body? Of course -- as you've said, we've seen this before. Could they achieve this via this "shifting" method? Unknown, unknown, unknown.

A major factor is that both cases of Slayer and Padan Fain (with Mordeth) are cases of what would be called "forced" merging (if you even want to say that both cases are forms of "merging" -- more like dual possession, but oh well). Slayer seems to have had something done to him by the Dark One; Fain only absorbed Mordeth's soul because it "forced" itself on him so to speak.

Rand's case would seem to be a type of "willing" merging, if it is possible.

**3) In regards to Alivia, I still do not have any solid ideas. I have read some responses to my theory on other boards where it is speculated that instead of inhabiting one body Rand and Moridin will simply switch bodies.**

Personally, I'm completely against the idea of souls switching bodies for the main reasons of I feel it's quite overwhelming that Rand, not just his body, will die and his soul will go on to be reborn again and again; and I feel that this fluidity between souls seems in stark contrast to what seems common sense about souls. It just makes sense that a soul put into a body stays there unless it's acted upon by quite a powerful force (whether Mordeth is a case of this is interesting).

**Others have said that LTT will battle his nemesis within Rand’s body.**

If the switch did take place, I doubt Lews Therin would remain in Rand's body; Rand and Lews Therin are the same soul, just two different personalities.

**By placing the Dragon’s soul under the direct supervision of his Champion the DO could assume that the soul of his greatest enemy was contained and under control.**

Which seems a big problem for this theory coming to fruition. As I pondered before, if this does take place, would the Dark One be able to control Rand's soul since he is now in Moridin's body which one would immediately assume is connected via black cords? Or are they more attached to the soul? Both? Does the Dark One still get some control of Rand's soul, which anyone would say would be bad?

**But if Moridin killed Rand and someone else balefired Moridin all in a short period of time then it could be quite possible that he'll live in his own body.**

If Rand isn't balefired, and balefire doesn't remove itself from it's own effect.

**Logain is also something I don't agree with. I always thought he is glory would be acting as the first tamyrlin of the next age, since Rand will most likely die or retire in some form or fashion. So he would get the glory of fixing the world's problems that Rand created in all his actions.**

I just always dislike the Tamyrlin reference everyone tosses in with Logain. Tamyrlin was First Age, and partially Age of Legends. It's gone for good now, unless something quite strange occurs.

13

tworiverswoman: 2006-02-24

Hank McCoy:

“1) I think Luc/Isam is an example that merging two souls into one body is possible. By having the reader accustomed to the possibility RJ eliminates calls of deus ex machia.” I quite agree, and said so. This is really Slayer’s only reason for existence.

“2) I believe that Rand and Moridin’s souls could both inhabit Moridin’s body. After all, Rand and LTT are currently doing this. If they share a body Rand will have the upper hand because of his experience with LTT. A battle of wills could occur within the body or in TAR. This is not an element that I was able to develop.” Sentence 2 above is mis-stated. Rand and LTT are one soul, not two. But the principle is the same, as far as having experience with dueling egos is concerned. So, yeah, Rand will have a definite advantage should this be the case. Unless the “black cords” offer Moridin some unforseeable help here, Rand should certainly win any “personality conflicts.”

“3) Others have said that LTT will battle his nemesis within Rand’s body.” The only problem with this idea is that, if Rand moves away, he’ll perforce take LTT with him. It is one soul, and he can’t leave him behind. Whether construct (Callandor’s belief) or real (I’m wavering), it’s all a single package. Whither Rand goest, so goes Lews Therin Telamon. Like it or not.

Callandor: “More importantly, if they do switch bodies, what will happen to Rand? Will the Dark One be able to control his soul, since Moridin's body clearly has black cords attached to it?” Has anybody conclusively proved whether the black cords are attached to the body or the soul? If the body, then Rand would have a real, and brand-new problem. If the soul, then the Dark One might be able to lend a bit of assistance to Moridin in the struggle for displacement or control.

JakOShadows: “The DO had to intervene to merge Luc/Isam” – this is an assumption, though a reasonable one. Truth is, we have NO IDEA how Luc/Isam came about. We have no POV at all. Just the result.

“But I do not think the merging will ever be possible. It seems a too unnatural thing to happen…” – Well, yeah, unnatural, but so what? That’s not really an issue in a Fantasy novel, is it? Besides, it has already happened once, with Luc/Isam – and it DOES seem rational to speculate that he/they exist to serve as an (‘orrible) example. What other reason is there for him to be in the book? I mean, in his merged form. Slayer, qua Slayer, is utterly unimportant.

“Logain is also something I don't agree with. I always thought "his" glory would be acting as the first tamyrlin of the next age, since Rand will most likely die or retire in some form or fashion. So he would get the glory of fixing the world's problems that Rand created in all his actions.” (Harumph! Poor Rand. He gets no respect!) “So he doesn't have to be known as the DR in the next age.” Who, Rand or Logain? Rand, I assume, but I don’t really understand what you mean by this.

“In short, it seems like you are going with the most complicated explanation for the quotes, which might be true. But me being an engineering student will follow Occam's Razor more, and take the simplest way that would work.” Good luck. If there’s a simple way, several years of theorizing, speculation and argument hasn’t come up with it!

Zalis: “Could there be some possible significance to Moridin's body? Considering Ishy was transferred to this body, could it have something to do w/ the Isam/Luc scenario? Perhaps Isam's?” -- this is an interesting idea, but there are some problems with it. Certainly can’t be Luc, here’s his description: “He is tall, broad-shouldered and in his middle years. He has a hard, angular face and dark reddish hair white-winged at the temples. He has dark blue eyes.” Isam was supposed to look a lot like Lan. Lan is blue-eyed, but the encyclopedia doesn’t mention a color for his hair, other than that it is graying at the temples. But, black is possible. But this idea bothers me, anyway. For more than one reason – time of events is the biggest problem. Luc “met his fate” in the Blight in 971, about twenty-eight years before Ishamael needed a new body. So his body, unless kept in a stasis box, would be close to 50ish. Also, because Slayer can choose which shape he will take when he steps out of Tel'aran'rhiod, it seems that both bodies must somehow be “available” to him. RJ has made life difficult for us, here – there just isn’t enough bloody information in the books to explain Slayer.

14

arcaneix: 2006-02-25

i think the reason that the face rand sees is slightly familiar is because its LTT's actual face,and cydane is his lost ellyna(mispelled)aka lanfear try to subvert him.i believe they are underestimating rand and playing on LTTs madness(i think he was focibly turned and thats why the seals were faulty).

15

Callandor: 2006-02-26

**Has anybody conclusively proved whether the black cords are attached to the body or the soul? If the body, then Rand would have a real, and brand-new problem. If the soul, then the Dark One might be able to lend a bit of assistance to Moridin in the struggle for displacement or control.**

One would assume the soul, since the Dark One transmigrates that, and the soul seems to be intermediary for channeling (hence, what needs to be protected by filter the taint by the cords). But we do see them eminating from the bodies of Forsaken. Could be the soul and they just seem to come from the body, could be the body and they perform the same functions even when not attached via the soul, or could even be both.

If it's the soul, and Moridin does "swap souls" with Rand it's going to require a balefiring to be sure he can't be transmigrated -- or just a death and then sealing the Dark One "better" than the Age of Legends. If it's body, then yes, Rand would have a serious problem.

**Good luck. If there’s a simple way, several years of theorizing, speculation and argument hasn’t come up with it!**

There's a very simple way: Rand actually dies and does not come back.

** i think the reason that the face rand sees is slightly familiar is because its LTT's actual face,and cydane is his lost ellyna(mispelled)aka lanfear try to subvert him.i believe they are underestimating rand and playing on LTTs madness(i think he was focibly turned and thats why the seals were faulty).**

We know the Third Man is Moridin.

16

perlchild: 2006-02-26

Ishy->Isam

Hi, excuse someone who hasn't been to this site in a while, but I always thought the Isam was Ishy taking over Luc's body and bossing trollocs around. The way the trollocs were shouting Isam in TSR was to me an indication of Ishy's egotism.

17

JakOShadows: 2006-02-26

*** Who, Rand or Logain? Rand, I assume, but I don’t really understand what you mean by this.***

I did mean that Logain didn't have to be known as the DR to become famous. And as to the tamyrlin comment, I just meant it as a reference to being the next leader of the male channelers. Not necessarily the first age coming again.

***Good luck. If there’s a simple way, several years of theorizing, speculation and argument hasn’t come up with it!***

I see what you are saying, but it could also be that RJ purposely didn't give us enough evidence to find out. Why do you think we are seeing so little of Rand's pov now? So I see what you are saying, but that is not a reason to make it complicated so that it tries to connect everything. In fact, I'll go so far to say that Rand probably won't plan out a lot of the things that will be prophesied himself, they will be things even he can't predict. So how would we be able to predict them?

18

Callandor: 2006-03-01

**Hi, excuse someone who hasn't been to this site in a while, but I always thought the Isam was Ishy taking over Luc's body and bossing trollocs around. The way the trollocs were shouting Isam in TSR was to me an indication of Ishy's egotism.**

No, Slayer is an assassain for the Shadow, who is made up of the souls of Luc Mantear and Isam Mandragoran. He brought the Trollocs to the Two Rivers, and the Trollocs say Isam presumably because he was in that "form" to order them (or he wasn't, and they just refer to him as that).

Ishamael played no part in this, partly because he has no known bearing on Slayer other than the person that ordered him to kill Fain, and partly because Ishamael was dead at the time.

19

William Seeker: 2006-03-13

Great Theory. Just one thing: How about Rand and Mordin struggle for control, but what happens is Mordin gets kicked out into Rand's body and then they fight, Rand is sadly forced to slay his body. Now he only has two problems: the damage inflicted on Mordin's body by his excessive use of the True Source, and the fact he looks like Mordin.

20

sc0122: 2006-03-21

To give some clarity to Nicola's fortelling:

"The lion sword" = Elayne

"The dedicated spear" = Aviendah

"She who sees beyond" = Min

"Three on the boat" = Elayne, Aviendah & Min

"And he who is dead yet lives" = Rand

"The great battle done" = Tarmonn Gaidon

"But the world not done with battle" = self explanatory after next point...

"The land divided by the return" = ie. the Seanchan (West & South) vs the rest (North and East)

"And the guardians" = Asha'man

"Balance the servants" = Aes Sedai

"The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

'nuff said...

21

Ozymandias: 2006-04-03

Nice theory, and I agree with most of it. Except, of course, the outcome. I personally think most of this happens as you say, but with LTT. Sort of a pet theory, but bravo anyways!

I also need to question the HOW of this. Why would the Dark One do this? Or did you imply that at the moment of death Rand surrenders to the merging visions thing and they become as one soul? I may have missed that, I only did a cursory reading since I'm in class. lol. But nice job nonetheless

22

Aludra: 2006-04-30

Personally, I think that Lews Therin will die at the last battle. Rand is Lews Therin reborn so it makes sense that in order for Rand to live his previous life must die.

Also, Isam is Lan's cousin or uncle (I can't recall which, it was in EotW) but he really wants to kill Lan, and for some reason Nynaeve too.

23

Aan Allein: 2006-05-01

I also agree that LTT must die at the Last Battle but, I am not convinced that in LTT dying that Rand won't die as well. I would like to believe that are wool-headed sheep-herder would survive... I haven't seen sufficient evidence to show that he is prophesized to.

24

Canan Urgas: 2006-05-17

quote "The most substantial line from the Prophecy is “One did live, and one did die, but both are.” This is amazingly similar to Min’s viewing “one of you dies, and one doesn't." On a related side note, we saw in the Shadow Rising that Luc’s body is the host. In TAR Slayer can assume both Isam’s form as well as Luc’s."

slayer can use both bodies in either world. remember when he tried to kill rand and min but got the wrong people it was clear that he was isam then.

25

HeronMarkedBlade: 2006-06-05

excellent theory, i enjoyed reading it and it is quite possible. Isam is Lan's cousin. Dont think Avienda (sorry, i only have The Eye of the world on me), Elayne and Min will be please to see Rand in Moridin's body, if they ever find out. I think that its likely to happen as it says "The blood of the Dragon Reborn on the rocks of Shayol Ghul". Doesnt mean that Rand has to neccesarily die. All im gonna say for now, but im sure ill reply again ^^

26

Dragonrider: 2006-06-06

I like this theory; lots of quotes (its certainly long enough, har har har) but i see one problem. Moridin is Ishamael reborn. In the prologue to Eye of the World, Ishamael talks with Kinslayer and reveals that him and Lews were destined to fight, in past lives and in lives to come. I just can't see those two opposing forces sharing a body.

27

Raunalyn: 2008-06-11

This is a very very interesting theory. However, this is assuming that RJ is wanting to end this with a "happy ending."

I don't think Rand will live after the last battle. I think he is a tragic hero and is meant to die and fulfill his destiny, being reborn in a later age after the myths of his passing have faded from memory.

Still, excellent theory!

28

Fourth Age Historian: 2008-09-17

Ever since I first read theories about a Rand/Moridin merge I have been a fan...they make a lot of sense. I can't wait to find out if or how it happens.

A new point, though: this could be a good tie-in for Egwene gentling Rand...something that seems plausible. If Rand is in Moridin's body, and they think he's Moridin, that would be a good reason for him to travel to the tower as a beggar and be gentled, no?