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ot 2 souls, but not 1 either

by Niall: 2003-04-12 | Not yet rated

Previous Categories: What do the colors that the ta'veren see mean?

Theory: Rand has two souls, that of Rand and LTT. Jordan said uh-uh. That's it.

Theory: Rand has one soul-LTT.

Now, as far as the one-souler rebuttal goes: LTT is a hero of the horn, right? I don't know if that is said straight out in the books but I've always assumed that that was true. A hero of the horn exists in T'A'R till he or she is called out by the horn or woven out by the wheel. Another bit of information we possess is that at least part of the last 3-4 thousand years, Ishy was outside of Shayol Ghul, and would have utilized T'A'R to some extent.
One problem with this. Either LTT or Ishy would almost certainly have sought each other out to resolve their possible conflict once and for all. But that seems not to have happened, since LTT still exists in some form, and so did Ishy, till Rand got him. That says to me that LTT was not in T'A'R. This isn't conclusive, but assume it's true till you get done reading my theory.

Now consider where Rand was born. Dragonmount, where Kinslayer died. RJ doesn't like coincidence, and this is a big one. Unless there is actually a reason that Rand HAD to be born in the same place as LTT. It might be that LTT was stuck on Dragonmount till a chance presented itself. An infant, young enough for LTT to join his soul to, who might not have survived the cold on the mountain top. Rand al'Thor. But a body isn't meant to be possessed. It's obviously not our common state. So when Rand/LTT got to the Two Rivers, LTT may have joined his soul to two others as well. Mat and Perrin. So all three of the ta'veren may be the Dragon Reborn, and all three might be one and a third souls. (Themselves and LTT.)

Most of this is conjecture, something I came up with to fit some of the evidence. But it could explain a great deal. Like the skills of the three ta'veren. Mat is a general, Rand is a channeler, and I think Perrin is meant to be the politician or at least administrator. Now look at LTT. Greatest general of his time, extremely strong in the One Power, and the Tamyrlin. (Sorry, Tamyrlin, but it's true.) Another coincidence?
Then we have the colors in the boys heads when they think of each other. It might be a link between the portions of LTT's soul, one that's finally showing itself to Mat and Perrin. This also might explain something I've been curious about for a while-Mat is definitely mentioned in the prophecies (See CoT, p.616), and might be mentioned another time. Most people know the Seanchans prophecies say the Dragon Reborn will kneel before the Crystal Throne. But that could be Mat instead of Rand, since we all know Rand won't do that voluntarily, but Mat might do it for his wife. And, we have another similariy that might mean quite a bit. Artur Hawkwing noted in The Great Hunt that LTT always got involved with women that got him in trouble. That's as true of Perrin as it is of Rand, and it's also true of Mat.

So there's my theory. I hope it's true.
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2003-04-15

Well, here are some initial problems. Rand is the only one that can channel, and Rand is the only one that Artur Hawkwing associates with LTT. He is the only one who can grab Callandor (admittedly, maybe the other two haven't tried), and he is the only one with dragons on his forearms. The other two boys are ta'veren, and Mat has gone through a few things to become the general that he is, things outside the realm of LTT. So, I don't think that part of your theory works. As to the other part. While Jordan has done some strange things with spirits and possession...we are given no hints that this is the case. Furthermore, wouldn't you call your example two souls? The soul Rand was born with and the soul of LTT entering Rand's body as a baby? Just some thoughts.

2

Dorindha: 2003-04-15

On the question of T'A'R, LTT would not have come across Ishy in T'A'R (assuming Ishy was using it) because of the precepts. Even though Moggy had said she would make Birgitte cry forever (can't remember exact quote) she didn't seek her out - it was only because Birgitte had knowingly violated the precepts that she was even around to get involved in the fight with Nynaeve. Do the forsaken know where the Heroes of the Horn wait?

3

Niall: 2003-04-15

Tamyrlin-good points, but I meant that the major aspects of LTT were split amongst the three. Rand's ability to channel is one of these aspects. Also, you are right that Mat has been led along the path to his generalship, but I would note that LTT didn't begin life as a general. There was a path he had to go on to get there as well.

As far as two souls, I believe he's got a portion of LTT's, which is up to interpretation as to whether that is two souls or one and a third. The news I got on RJ's statement is that he debunked the two soul theory, which might have been an Aes Sedai-like bit of evasion. He doesn't have two COMPLETE souls.

4

The Leveler: 2003-04-15

I belive that Rand has LESS than a full soul. I belive that everytime he is reborn and dies, part of his soul goes to wherever they go if they aren't going to be reborn. The reason that this cycle is going to be thelast is that there just isn't enough solu left for another go. Also LTT was sent back to help because Rand needed more soul than he had.

5

Vaughn882: 2003-04-15

I think Rand was born on Dragonmount only to show that he was the Dragon Reborn, like some of the other proficies (for example, the only point of the heron brand marks were to show that he was the Dragon Reborn). I don't think LTT's soul was waiting there, that would be stupid and un-Jordan-like

6

Rand-althor: 2003-04-15

Don't only heroes wait in T'A'R? I dont think(and plz give me the quote if im wrong) that LTT was a hero of the horn. Mat's steps were logical. He got the dagger, then had to go to the WT to be healed. While there he agreed to give a message to Morase, and heard of a plot to kill Elayne, Nyneve, and Egwene. He felt he had a duty to save them and did. He went through the arches, and got his answers. They said he had to go to Rhudian. He saw the arch, thought it was the same, and got his memories in there. I dont see any implication of LTT guiding, or having any part of this. Also I dont remember any memories from before around Hawkwing's time, and I am sure there have been none from the AoL in Mat's head.

Again please correct me if im wrong in any of this. And if LTT spread himself between 3 people, then his taavernness would be spread as well. Unless LTT was so lucky that he could walk into a volcano and come out perfectly fine without channeling, I dont see how we could get 3 Ta'avern of such strength. Again, just use logic, what we have been given, and some common sense and you can get some definite conclusions, and your theory definately wouldnt be in that category. Some good thinking tho. Congradulations on such a well formed theory.

7

Jiana: 2003-04-18

Yes, Niall, Mat has been mentioned in the prophecies, probably more than once. (I'll have more to say on that later.) But it only makes sense for both Perrin and Mat to be mentioned,and play an integral role. After all, there is the speculation that the prophecies are based on what happened when this current age happened before, and that is a real possibility. I read the passage you are talking about, but I don't think that it concludes anything about Mat having a part of the Dragon's soul. I think that the line "with the fox that makes ravens fly" is perhaps indicative of Mat taking over the Seanchan Empire, through his connection to Tuon. This could help fulfill the part of Seanchan prophecy where Rand has to kneel to the Seanchan throne.

8

heronblade: 2003-06-13

rand being born on dragonmount didnt show he was the drb. no one knew and it wasn't proclamed. also, wouldn't that be a tad silly? he was a baby, completely unable to defend himself, why didny a forsaken come to kill him? it could have been the weave of the pattern but what difference did it make. as taim said in cos (i think)if HE had succesfully been the dragon, history would have written him born on dragonmount

9

Callandor: 2003-06-13

First off, the Forsaken were trapped then.

And second, in the Chronicles page you can find a few theories about how the Pattern needs the prophacies fulfilled in order for there to be a Dragon. They explain it a lot better then I could.

10

Bela: 2003-08-26

Ok, I'm a one-souler, but this theory has some interesting points. I recall Thom saying something to the boys in tEoTW about this.

****Searching****

Found it. It was after the battle with the Trollocs when Mat first spoke in the Old Tongue in Ch. 19, Pp 278 in paperback.

"Don't say that! Thom drew a deep breath; everybody stared at him now. That is dangerous talk, stupid talk. The dead can be reborn, or take a living body, and it is not something to speak of lightly."

So there you go.

11

rubbernilly: 2003-08-26

You lost me at "An infant, young enough for LTT to join his soul to..."

Now that I glance at the rest of it, I'm glad I stopped. Three ta'veren are all the Dragon Reborn? When has that ever been demonstrated? When has someone other than Rand fulfilled the prophecies regarding the Dragon Reborn?

Poppycock, I say.