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ow to Win

by Anubis: 2003-03-06 | 4 out of 10 (4 votes)

Previous Categories: Plans of the Dark One

I have been wonding what the plans of the dark one are and i decided to take a different approach to figuring it out. (always helps to try a new perspectave) I am going for what the dark one needs to do to win.

What wont work:

Killing Rand. It would just be to freakin easy to have done already. The Dark One has had several opportunities to kill Rand so far, but has not in favor of trying to turn him.

Turning Rand to the dark side of the force. While i imagine this would help, it is not the be all and the end all of the war. Recall that ishmal (moridin) weighs killing rand over getting the giant sa angrael and decides that the sa angrael are much more important.

Merely escaping. If it were just a matter of escaping, then the dark ones plans would be very different i think. Personally if i were him, i would have played nice with the aolers, maybe even not letting them know i was sentiant, untill they freed me due to their own curiosity.

Alright, now imagine that the dark one and the creator have been fighting for some time. One comes up with a new weapon, the pattern. The pattern gives the one who controlls it better the edge in their conflict. Controlling the pattern is not absolute, the other can still fight for controll himself, but it helps alot. Somewhere in this struggle the creator gains controll (maybe he began with it, but i like the idea that he stole it from the dark one, he is clearly better at using the pattern as is evidenced by the dark one not getting loose)

So, the dark one needs to destroy the pattern. I dont think controlling it will be enough, but i think that controll is a vital step. Since the creator is better at manipulating the pattern, destruction is vital.

We know the dark one is interested in making chaos. if a fabric becomes too chaotic, then eventually it will unravel. Also, starving will help, in both eliminating threads, and creating chaos. As we have seen, in the worlds where the dark one has won (against hawkwing for example) there is almost nothing alive.

Time to wrap it up:

The Plan

Create Wars, through manipulation so the forces of good are unable to present a united front.

Attempt to turn vital taveren toward the creation of chaos and destrction.

When the forces of humanity are weakest, unleash the trollocs and halfmen you have been breeding in the northlands. The borderlands will fall easily as they are currently undefended. Also now is the time to kill the dragon if he has not been turned.

Once humanity is gone, kill the forsaken, feed all the surviving darkfriends to the trollocs. Destroy crops, wilt the land. Trollocs will kill eachother. Then with no trace of humanity left, the darkone will be free to do whatever the heck he wants.
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Tamyrlin: 2003-03-08

That is a good synopsis of possible plans that will or will not work. But the question I have yet to see answered is how does the DO get out of the Prison? There was a Bore before the seal...but the DO still wasn't out of his prison, and the wars raged for a long time and he still did not get out. So, what does it take?


Graendalboytoy: 2003-03-08

When looking to identify the Shadow's master plan, I think it is important to remember that we realize that certain events have forced the plan to change. Even the best laid plans fall to chaos when the battle is actually joined, so it is safe to assume that things that have occured in the last ten books have force the Shadow to begin re-writing its plan as things go along. So it is unlikely that a scripted plan has been in use during the entire series. Any general worth his salt can tell you that the ability to adapt in battle and hold things together is what wins. If the Dark One had a master plan, I'm sure that He has been forced to rework it as things go along, just like anyone else would.


Anubis: 2003-03-09

clearly though some elements of the master plan have not changed, as well as the general idea aka CHAOS and disruption. and tam, the DO was able to make the bore wider when there was a hole in it. the forsaken always comment when at shaol ghoul that the bore seemed wider. so eventually the guy is bound to get out if left alone.


Great Lord of the Dark: 2003-03-10

Graendal's Boy Toy is right. The plan has changed, mostly because the Black Ajah were running the show, then Ishamael was freed and he began running the show, then he got killed and everyone did their own thing, then the Dark One began speaking to his Chosen, and he was in charge, then Moridin showed up to take charge of the Chosen. I'm working on quotes relating to this for a different theory, and the timing of when each person took charge of how to prepare for the Last Battle is up for debate. In any case, presume the Chosen knew the original plan from Age of Legends and were continuing it when they were freed.


Anubis: 2003-03-10

The dark one has always had his own agenda, known only to ishmael if that. The forsaken are just tools to be cast aside when their usefulness is gone.

i think if you want the darkones plan then you need to look at ishmael. it has changed though. first the EOTW failed, and continuing trying to turn rand failed, but after that its all been leading up to somthing.


solomonrex: 2003-03-26

To respond to Tamyrlin's challenge, specifically, how can the DO break free of the prison instead of working through the Bore (which limits DO's power)? There is only one answer- the Choden Kal. Creating a Bore must be a level of magnitude easier than destroying an entire prison. So the DO needs a whole lot of the one power. I just read 'The Strike at Shayol Ghul' and what stood out this time were the Choden Kal and Latra Posae, their creator/manager. Firstly, Latra Posae only emerged after the War of the Shadow began. Secondly, the forsaken know about them in the present day world even though it was top secret at the time. So I think they always knew about them and they were a plan of the DO. But he couldn't use them at the time, because the Forsaken just won't work together. I have a feeling even the forsaken know better than to let the DO out completely, anyway. The DO needs to 'turn' the most powerful Aes Sedai ever and then have him and her use the Choden Kal to destroy the prison. That's why Rand is kept alive, ultimately. That's why the Choden Kal were really created- even the Aes Sedai council thought that the barrier put up by the Choden Kal would fail eventually. That was probably a DO plan to give it more time to influence the world. The DO has been arranging things since that time in order to accomplish this. The Mind traps and Shaidar Haran may be working towards a time when the DO can control enough of the OP through subordinates to use the Choden Kal. Then the DO could 'Challenge the Creator Himself'.


Anubis: 2003-03-26

yeah... the choden kal would make the DO unstoppable.. splains y ishmael wants it so bad. but does the DO need the choden kal. sure they would help immensly, but are they the plan or just an opportunity to grasp at?


Callandor: 2003-03-27

WH, Chapter 35, With the Choedan Kal, page 762:

**He did not need to see the mans face to know al Thor. The key lying on the ground at his side named him. To Osan gars eyes, it shone brightly. In his head, it overwhelmed the sun, a thousand suns. What he could do with that! A pity it had to be DESTROYED along with al Thor.**

The Dark side wants to destroy the Choedan Kal. Not use them.


Dorindha: 2003-03-28

I don't think Os'angar or the DO wants to destroy the Choadan Kal but Os'anger does want to destroy Rand (may or may not be on the DO's orders) and he is just thinking that it is a shame he can't destroy Rand without destroying the ter'angreal. He'd actually quite like to get his hands on the ter'angreal, but there is no way he can destroy rand without destroying it.


solomonrex: 2003-03-28

That is an excellent quote, Callandor, because it raises all sorts of questions in my mind. Why not kill Rand before? Why destroy the Choden Kal if they are the ultimate power? Are they the only real threat to the DO's freedom? Which dark side wants Rand dead now? Was it only Lanfear and Moridin who ever wanted him alive?


Anubis: 2003-03-29

Counterexample from some one too lazy to look up a quote...

moridin tells the renegade asha man to take everything that rand has on his person and give it to him. ishy knows about rands plans to clense the taint, so it is reasonable to assume that he knows rand has the choden kal with him. ishy probably wants the choden kal, but does not trust one of the forsaken to return them to him. ANY of the forsaken in that kind of situation would "pull a lanfear" and go solo. better to rely on the ignorant to do what must be done. course i could be wrong... but i can think of NO reason not to take the choden kal for the dark ones use.


Anubis: 2003-03-29

Middle of chapter 3 WH: "And later still Moridin had said, 'Kill him if you must, but above all, bring everything in his possession to me. That will redeem your previous transgressions.'"

kisman recalling stuff.

three possibilities. calandor.. meh, sa angrael, sure y not. the seals... cary them on your person... id bet ishy knew rand didnt have them ON him. choden kal... clensing imminant, good possibliity.


banner general1: 2007-01-14

if he kills everyone then what is the point of being free? who will he rule?