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ow do the Seals operate

by Elder Haman: 2003-02-07 | Not yet rated

Previous Categories: The Nature of the Bore

This theory is based on the assumption that the Pattern is the Dark One's Prison:

(Thanks goes to Callandor who had several ideas relating to this, (despite being a non-believer in the Pattern = Prison theory), posted under the theory "The Creator, Dark One and Time.")

The seals are a patch over the hole/Bore in the pattern. In other words the seals don't strengthen the Pattern or the threads around the bore. Instead it covers them with a patch that is attached to those threads further away from the Bore which are still strong.

Callandor's comments:

"Are [the Seals] re-enforcing certain threads in the Pattern? Are they just acting as permanent Ta Veren and warping the Pattern around them (that would be kinda neat and might give a theory to why Rand almost smashed the Seal when Taim gave it to him)?"

My interpertation of, and response to, Callandor's ideas:

Callandor's first suggestion sounds similar to some form of darning that binds the "worn" threads back together. I don't think this fits with the images I get from the book. However, channeling is often refered to as "weaving." Perhaps Saidan is the thread being used to darn the bare spot and the 'seals' are just "the focus points" for this weaving and is what holds the darning in place.

Callandor's second idea is really interesting. I had never thought of it, but I really like it, (don't know if I agree though). I think the seals might operate similar to Ta'veren, but more likely they are related to Callandor's first suggestion. As ta'veren are to Pattern threads so the seals are to the Saidan threads.
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Tamyrlin: 2003-02-07

This is a topic I am interested in lately. What exactly is the sealing and how does it work in conjunction with the partially trapped Ishy back before TEoTW. The weaving analogy makes sense in regards to the focus points. I am not sure I understand what your last statement means, "so the seals are to the saidin threads." A more detailed explanation of the concept of a stretching patch would be helpful; I think I understand but I am not quite sure.


Dedicated: 2003-02-07

I always like to read your musings Elder H. You've got some interesting ideas. (By the way, I'm a believer in your "pattern is the DO's prison" theory). Now, the Bore has been described frequently as a thinness in the pattern. Take the cloth weaving analogy. The seals are like buttons which LTT wove the threads around to reseal the bore. As the seals break (buttons pop off?) the Pattern becomes thinner and thinner at the bore, allowing the DO to have more influence.

Evidence of the influence abounds and won't be discussed here. Let me know if I'm anywhere close to what you're proposing.


Tigraine: 2003-02-07

I was just thinking along these lines a few nights ago but couldn't reason out a few things. I think that if this is true, it would give a valid reason for not only how the sealing works, but also why only saidin was tainted too! If the seals are like ta'veren, pulling the male half of the One Power to patch the Bore, then saidin's sudden closeness to the Bore might have caused the original backlash that tainted saidin.

Now I know that we have several viewpoints, especially Forsaken, that state that it was the "Dark One's counterstroke" on men. However, has the Dark One really told them this? Is he trying to gain face by making the disaster attributable to him? What if the taint just... happened... and the Dark One took the credit? That would be a little ironic.

The question is, how does Shadar Logoth fit into all of this? I have my theories on that, and I will post those very soon.


Callandor: 2003-02-08

If the Seals were like buttons then they would still have to be attached to the clothe itself (threads in the Pattern), but if this is true then they would have to be attacked to somebodys soul itself.

Now how the heck could you do that? If the Seals lasted 3000+ years then most likely there would have to be 7 people 3000+ years old. If you think that they would just be reborn, wouldnt the soul go dormant for a little while? So the thread is gone then and hence the DO has more power over the pattern.

So the DO would be effecting the world a lot in 3000+ years, but we just havent seen that. All of the things that have been bad (Trolloc Wars, Black Ajah, downfall of Hawkwings Empire, Seanchan (Im leaning toward this one but ill add it just because its iffy)) have been an effect of Ishamae, not the DO.


perrinshammer: 2003-02-23

This maybe far in left feild but why can't the seals (buttons) be attached to the forsaken (threads) themselves. after all they are the only threads 3000+ years old.


Dragons Shadow: 2003-02-24

The seals are tied to the souls of the Forsaken? So, as the forsaken die, the seals break? I think it is more like the seals were strong when the forsaken were in no danger of dying. As they have escaped and become vulnerable to death and change the seals attached to them weaken. That is why Ishy seemed to be slowly "feeding" the other forsaken to the DR. He even then sacrificed himself (secure in the knowledge that the DO would bring him back) to weaken the portion of the seals that is attached to him.

Then there is also the polar opposition theory. The seals are not attached to the forsaken, rather they are containers or shields built around the knots left when one ties off a shield (a knot so intricate that it creates a physical reflection). The seals are NOT Cuillendar as Egwene is making. They are rather a solid form of pure one power( that is why they absorb the one power and any other force, they ARE force). The "polar opposite" of the one power is the troe power (positive and negative sides of the same coin) Ishy actually couldn't kill rand in the begining because he was as limited in the true power as rand was in the one power. They truly are reflections of one another. As rand increased in power, it made more of the TP available to Ishy. Who then used it to destroy the seals. As we have seen, a seal is destroyed every time Rand takes his power to the next level. (we havent seen the seals in awhile so we havent seen the effects of the Chodan Kal on them).

Just a thought.


scion2: 2003-03-19

I believe that the Dark one's prison is just outside of the pattern. This would make sense, if he is outside and out of reach of the Pattern he is unable to touch it, if he is trap inside the pattern he should still be able to shape it around him.

I believe that the bore, though most strongly felt in Shadar Logoth (right name?) it is actually everywhere (the bore). The seal have no particular location therefore, and thus need focu points (7-which by the way are how many points you need to triangulate a path to any given point)that exist in the physical world. ( I not exactly certain, mostly I'm babbling)


Callandor: 2003-03-20

The Shadar Logoth evil is similar but different than the DO. The Bore is most strongly felt at Shayol Ghul.


Darren: 2003-05-09

I find it unlikely that "The Pattern" is his prison. First, although we know Moiraine is not a faultless source, we must assume that she has spent a significantly greater amount of time than we have studying about the DO, and so when she started talking about how the seals were weakening and now the DO can touch the pattern, we must assume that there is SOME basis to the individuation of the two.

Secondly, if the Pattern WAS the DO's Prison, then you are effectively saying that the Creator both built a universe that not only revolved around (metaphor, not literal) the Dark One, but was DEPENDENT upon him.

If you mean that a small aspect of the pattern is the DOP, then maybe you're onto something, but really, that's a meaningless statement, since there is nothing in Creation that isn't a small fragment of the Pattern.

As to Rand almost smashing the Seal, that's because LTT knows more than Rand, and he's already figured out what Herid Fel was murdered for discovering, that the Seals have to be destroyed (as well, possibly, as the entire Prison, which would put a large dent on your Pattern as Prison theory. I doubt the LB is going to be rand undoing the entire pattern and then reweaving it, effectively BECOMING the Creator...) before the Prison can be rebuilt.