Theoryland of the Wheel of Time

The Horn of Valere was known in the Age of Legends, though it was an artifact of an earlier age, but it was never used in the Age of Legends. In part, this was because there wasn't any need in an Age that knew universal peace, but also it was because what it could do was considered a sort of myth by most people in that Age. No one who is serious spends time trying to test out whether a myth might be real. (Seen anybody sacrificing a white bull to Jupiter lately?) And once the Dark One touched the world, before the War of the Shadow actually began, the Horn was among the items lost, and thought destroyed, in the first rush of mob violence, terrorism etc. So it wasn't available for use then even had someone wanted to try. It was later recovered and sealed up with the Dragon Banner because along with the Foretellings that made up the Prophecies of the Dragon was one saying that it must be.

In any case, the story of the Horn was carried on through the Age of Legends in the same way that myths are today, and magnified thereafter though the twisting that occurs in the telling and retelling of a story. And believe me, stories about the Dragon Reborn and the Prophecies and everything concerned with them were rife during the Breaking. When everything is going to hell around them, people cling to anything and everything that might offer hope. That is how the Breaking could end with tales of the Dragon Reborn and the Prophecies already on many peoples' lips.

Does evil need to be effective to be evil? And how do you define effectiveness? Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge managed to murder about 25-30% of Cambodia's population, destroy the country's agricultural and industrial base, fairly well wipe out the educated class inside the country (defined as anyone with an education beyond the ability to read; a good many of those went too, of course), and in general became so rabid that only China was willing to maintain any sort of contact with them, and that at arm's length. Their rabidity was the prime reason that they ended up losing the country. (though they are still around and still causing trouble.) In other words, they were extremely ineffective in attaining their goal, which was to seize Cambodia, remake it in the way Pol Pot wished (and still wishes), and export their brand of revolution abroad. Looking at the death toll, the cities emptied out (hospital patients were told they had one hour to leave or die; post-op patients, those still in the operating room, everybody), the murders of entire families down to infants because one member of the family was suspected of "counter-revolutionary" crimes, the mass executions (one method was for hundreds of people to be bound hand and foot, then bulldozed into graves alive; the bulldozers drove back and forth over these mass graves until attempts to dig out stopped)—given all of that, can you say that Khmer Rough's ineffectiveness made them less evil? Irrationality is more fearful than rationality (if we can use that term in this regard) because if you have brown hair and know that the serial killer out there is only killing blondes, you are safe, but if he is one of those following no easily discernible pattern, if every murder seems truly random, then it could be you who will be next. But "rationality" can have its terrors. What if that killer is only after brunettes named Carolyn? Stalin had the very rational goal (according to Communist dogma) of forcibly collectivizing all farmland in the Soviet Union. He was effective—all the land was collectivized—and to do it he murdered some thirty million small farmers who did not want to go along.

But are the Forsaken ineffective or irrational? Are they any more divided than any other group plotting to take over a country, a world, IBM? True, they plot to secure power for themselves. But I give you Stalin v. Trotsky and the entire history of the Soviet Union. I give you Thomas Jefferson v. Alexander Hamilton v. John Adams, and we will ignore such things as Jefferson's hounding of Aaron Burr (he tore up the Constitution to do it; double jeopardy, habeas corpus, the whole nine yards), or Horatio Gates' attempted military coup against Washington, with the support of a fair amount of the Continental Congress. We can also ignore Secretary of War Stanton's attempts to undermine Lincoln throughout the Civil War, the New England states' attempt to make a separate peace with England during the Revolution and their continued trading with the enemy (the British again) during the War of 1812, and... The list could go on forever, frankly, and take in every country. Human nature is to seize personal advantage, and when the situation is the one the Forsaken face (namely that one of them will be given the rule of the entire earth while the others are forever subordinate), they are going to maneuver and backstab like crazy. You yourself say "If ever there was the possibility that some alien force was going to invade this planet, half the countries would refuse to admit the problem, the other half would be fighting each other to figure out who will lead the countries into battle, etc." Even events like Rahvin or Sammael or Be'lal seizing a nation have a basis. What better way to hand over large chunks of land and people to the Dark One than to be ruler of those lands and people? The thing is that they are human. But aside from that, are you sure that you know what they are up to? All of them? Are you sure you know what the Dark One's own plans are? Now let's see about Rand and his dangers and his allies. Have you been skimming, my dear? What makes you think the Tairens, Cairhienin and Andorans are solidly behind him? They're plotting and scheming as hard as the Forsaken. Rand is the Dragon Reborn, but this is my country, and we don't need anybody, and so on. And then there are those who don't think he is the Dragon Reborn at all, just a puppet of Tar Valon. Most of the Aiel may be behind him, but the Shaido are still around, and the bleakness is still taking its toll, since not all Aiel can face up to what Rand has told them about themselves. What makes you think the Seanchan will fall in behind Rand? Have you seen any Seanchan volunteers showing up? Carolyn, half of these people are denying there is a problem, and half are trying to be big honcho themselves. Read again, Carolyn. The world Rand lives in is getting more frenzied and turbulent. Damned few are saying, "Lead, because you know best." A good many who are following are saying "Lead, because I'd rather follow you than have you call down lightning and burn me to a crisp!"

As for lack of challenge, I refer you again to the question about whether you really think you know what all the Forsaken are planning. Or what Padan Fain is up to. There is a flaw inherent in fiction, one that is overcome by suspension of disbelief. We do always know, somewhere in the back of our heads, that the hero is going to make it through as far as he needs to. After all, if Frodo buys the farm, the story is over, kids. The excitement comes in trying to figure out how he can possibly wiggle out, how he can possibly triumph.

In Rand's case, let's see what he still has stacked against him. The Cairhienin and Tairens are for the most part reluctant allies, and in many cases not even that. At the end of Fires, he has Caemlyn, but I don't see any Andoran nobles crowding around to hail him. Illian still belongs to Sammael. Pedron Niall is working to convince people Rand is a false Dragon, and the Prophet is alienating ten people for every one he convinces. Tarabon and Arad Doman are unholy messes; even if Rand manages to get in touch with all of the Dragonsworn—who are not organized beyond individual bands—he has two humongous civil wars to deal with. True, he can use the Aiel to suppress those, but he has to avoid men killing men too much; there are Trollocs waiting to spill out of the Blight eventually. We must always remember the Trollocs, Myrddraal etc; the last time they came out in force, it took over 300 years to beat them back, and the Last Battle doesn't give Rand anywhere near that. Altara and Murandy are so divided in any case that simply getting the king or queen on his side isn't going to work; remember that most people in those two countries give loyalty to a city or a local lord and only toss in their country as an afterthought. Davram Bashere thinks Tenobia will bring Saldaea to Rand, and that is possible since the Borderlands would be one place where everyone is aware of the Last Battle and the Prophecies, but even Bashere isn't willing to make any promises, not even for Saldaea much less the other Borderlands, and I haven't seen any Borderland rulers showing up to hand Rand the keys to the kingdom. Padan Fain is out there, able to feel Rand, and hating him because of what was done to him, Fain, to make him able to find Rand. The surviving Forsaken are out there and except for Sammael, nobody knows what they are up to or where they can be found. For that matter, who knows everything that Sammael is up to? Elaida, in the White Tower, thinks Rand has to be tightly controlled. The Salidar Aes Sedai are not simply ready to fall in and kiss his boots, either. Aes Sedai have been manipulating the world for more than three thousand years, guiding it, making sure it remembers the Dark One and Tarmon Gai'don as real threats, doing their best, as they see it, to prepare the world for the Dark One breaking free. Are they likely to simply step aside and hand over control to a farmboy, even if he is the Dragon Reborn? Even after Moiraine decided he had to be given his head, Siuan was reluctant, and Siuan was in Moiraine's little conspiracy from the beginning. And the Seanchan...The last we saw of their forces, they were commanded by a Darkfriend. As for the Sea Folk, do you know what their prophecy says about the Coramoor? Do you think working with them it will be any simpler than dealing with the Aiel, say?

Now, what and who does Rand have solidly in his camp? Perrin knows what is needed, but he's hardly happy about it. What he really wants is to settle down with Faile and be a blacksmith; everything else is a reluctant duty. Mat blew the Horn of Valere, but it's hidden in the Tower, and frankly, if he could figure some way to go away and spend the rest of his life carousing and chasing women, he would. He'll do what he has to do, but Light he doesn't want to. The Aiel are for Rand (less the Shaido, still a formidable force), but the Dragon Reborn and the Last Battle are no part of the Prophecy of Rhuidean. That is all wetlander stuff. Besides which, they are still suffering losses from bleakness, people throwing down their spears and leaving, people defecting to the Shaido or drifting back to the Waste because what Rand told them of their origins can't possibly be true and if it isn't then he can't be the Car'a'carn. Rand has declared an amnesty for men who can channel and is trying to gather them in; they, at least, should give their loyalty to him. But how many can he find? How much can he teach them in the time he has? How many will go mad before the Last Battle? There is still the taint on saidin, remember. For that matter, can Rand hang onto his own sanity? What effect will having a madman inside his head have? Can he stop Lews Therin from taking him over?

I know that was supposed to be a listing of what Rand has in his favor, but the fact is that he is walking the razor's edge, barely hanging onto his sanity and growing more paranoid all the time, barely hanging onto putative allies, most of whom would just as soon see him go away in the hope that then everything would be the way it was before he showed up, confronted by enemies on every side. In short he has challenges enough for ten men. I've had people write to say they can't see how Rand is going to untangle all of this and get humanity ready to face the Last Battle. What I say is, what you believe to be true is not always true. What you think is going to happen is not always going to happen. That has been demonstrated time and again in The Wheel of Time. You could call those two statements one of the themes of the books.

TEREZ

RUTH HINCKLEY

TEREZ

BRANDON SANDERSON

BRANDON SANDERSON

BRANDON SANDERSON

BRANDON SANDERSON (26 JANUARY)

For F Horn of Valere, I spend relatively little time with the notes compared to the time I spend actually writing. I do a refresher run-through before I begin writing, and I have what I call a "base notes" file for each storyline and each group. That contains the major things I believe might be necessary for each storyline along with reminders of where more detailed information is to be found.

No, the story is NOT a dream. Jeez Marie!

A very strong male channeler bonded to a very weak Aes Sedai could not use the bond to control her. Whoever holds the bond is in charge, though she might have a hard time controlling him.

Everybody fears death because the being that is reborn, while possessing the same soul, will not be the same person. The fear is simple. I will cease to exist. Someone else will exist, bearing my soul. But I will cease. I have met many believers in reincarnation, and most of them seem to fear death just as much as anyone else.

Yes, Elayne, Nynaeve and Egwene could pass the test for Aes Sedai with their current abilities, though Nynaeve might be a little hard pressed. Too much specialization.

And finally, as I have said, I would not change anything in the books except the way that I structured Crossroads of Twilight.

Question

Robert Jordan

Last year, when I did this, I just listed a few off of the top of my head without turning to any reference websites. (Actually, that's how I did the whole interview—I felt that readers need to see the real me, not the coached and scripted me.) That may have been the wrong choice, since there were those who seemed aghast that I couldn't remember if Lan rescuing Nynaeve happened in book six or book seven. (Reference my general absent mindedness from the previous question.)

Well, you can rest assured that I'm now very aware that it happened in book six, right after the Cleansing of saidar and right before Perrin blew the Horn of Valere. Sorry for getting that wrong.

Anyway, I also mentioned the prologue to book one, some of the Perrin scenes in the later books (before the wife-vanishing incident), and the climax to the third book. (Though I think that last year I might have said Be'lal in a place where I meant Ba'alzamon. Surprisingly, I didn't see any indignation over this slip up. Perhaps I didn't look closely enough at the message boards—or, perhaps they never realized I made a mistake, since Be'lal was there at the end of Book Three. His scene just wasn't the one I was thinking about. In truth, I was just trying to get across that I've always found the entire end of the third book—with the Stone, and Mat, and Rand, and the Aiel—to be a blast. Literally, in Mat's case.)

I think a lot of the most memorable points in the books are the climaxes of the stories. Dumai's Wells, Falme, etc. However as I consider it, probably my favorite sequence of scenes in the entire series is the one with Rand going through the ter'angreal at Rhuidean.

As I understand, if you are 'spun out' you do not respond to the call of the Horn. So no Cain showing up if it is sounded again, as he's been spun out.

Astrogat

As you understand it? Isn't your understanding more or less canon at this point?

ilikedirigibles

No, it's not his world or book series. He can misunderstand something just as well as the next guy.

Not saying he did here, but just 'cuz he's finishing the series doesn't mean, for example, he can retcon or change anything or do "whatever he wants or thinks".

Astrogat

No of course not. But if there are two ways to understand something (that RJ has written) wouldn't it be up to Sanderson to decide which of those he believes to be right?

So if he thinks that when he's spun out he wont respond to the Horn, no one can ever prove him wrong (there are nothing in the books to contradict this), so wouldn't his understanding be the "right" one?

Brandon Sanderson

Here's the thing. There are three million+ words of notes, and RJ changed his mind about a lot of things as he wrote, explored, and made decisions. (He talked about this being his process. He saw the Wheel of Time as an organic thing.) So any time I speak on an issue like this, there's the chance that Maria (his assistant) will come to me and say "Actually, Brandon, he changed his mind on that. Look here for the revision." Half the time, it's something he mentioned in passing to her, Harriet, or Alan and isn't even written down.

So...on things I think I know, but haven't confirmed with Team Jordan yet, I usually add some wiggle room. My knowledge is far from absolute. Fortunately, everything in the books I write gets fact-checked a half dozen times. (Even then, some of my mistakes slip through.)

Hmm.

MARIA SIMONS

Okay...we don't really know. No one really knows. It's an ancient artifact, probably not a ter'angreal.

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Excuse me, Maria, I have to interrupt for just a moment. I actually found some notes on this, in the bottom of Jim's desk.

MARIA SIMONS

Oh, really?

ALAN ROMANCZUK

I don't know if anyone's interested.

VIRGINIA

Oh yes.

SPENCER POWELL

Just a little?

MARK

Please, please?

ALAN ROMANCZUK

The Horn of Valere, as Maria said, it was created by mortals—we know that; Jim has said as much publicly—and the Horn was created in the Age before the Age of Legends, or at least one Age before; it was not known how far back. But I've discovered that the Horn actually was the original Horn played by Dizzy Gillespie. [laughter] It was manufactured by King—it was the silver flare model. And something happened after this Age...there was so much Bebop imbued in this instrument that it took on its own magical qualities, and when it was found during the Age of Legends, the bent bell was refashioned into a curve, and they put in the Old Tongue inscription inside the bell. [laughter]

ANDREW GELOS

That is awesome.

VIRGINIA

Wow. I never would have guessed that.

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Well, it's really obscure. The power of Bebop is unlimited, and it just transformed through the last couple of Ages, to get into Rand's world, with its current...now, originally, when he blew it, musicians would appear.

VIRGINIA

AH. Backup band.

ALAN ROMANCZUK

But because of the needs of the time, you know, it suddenly became, Heroes would emerge when it was played. So, that's all we can really say about it. Do you have anything else to add, Maria?

MARIA SIMONS

No.

JENNIFER LIANG

I can't wait until the Theorylanders get ahold of that.

VIRGINIA

Oh yeah. So now we know that the Wheel even weaves inanimate objects into the Pattern, and makes use of them as it wishes.

MARK

Now, that story I expect to see in the next Great White Book, version two. [laughter]

Which brings me actually to...well, that was one of the questions I was going to ask later on; I thought I'd pick a different tangent rather than ter'angreal and the Horn of uh…call it vuh-LEAR.

VIRGINIA

Please correct our pronunciations, too, you guys, whenever you run across them; that's one of the big things we want to pin down is, how we should pronounce some of these things so if you hear us say something and you don't think it's what RJ would have wanted, then please just break in and say 'no'.

[in her sweet little girl voice] Okay.

MARIA SIMONS

Valere (rhyming with vuh-LEAR) was the way he pronounced it.

MARK

Yay, I got it right!

VIRGINIA

Who's keeping score?

MARK

Well, I'm almost never right, so it's good to be able to say I was right for once.

MARIA SIMONS

I used to be wrong about a lot of pronunciations when I first started working for him, because that was about the time of A Crown of Swords, and I would say something, and say it wrong, and he would give me this look, like 'What are you saying?' and correct me, so I got most of them down over time.

VIRGINIA

I can see that look perfectly, because I actually have a very short video clip from one of the book signings where somebody tried to pronounce 'the Shaido', and he just gave them 'the look', and said, 'It's not Shy-doh. It's not Shadow. It's Shah-EE-doh. Everybody kind of went, [in a small, apologetic voice] 'O-kie.' [laughter] He could quell an entire room with one look. It was amazing.

JENNIFER LIANG

The first time I met Jordan at a signing, the first thing he said to me was correcting my pronunciation of something. I was like, 'Awww, I ruined it! He'll never talk to me again now!'

MARIA SIMONS

He wouldn't hold it against you. I—

JENNIFER LIANG

Oh, yeah. Well clearly he didn't because he did eventually come to DragonCon, so...

In Lord of Chaos, Nynaeve and Elayne searched for something that would tie the Salidar Aes Sedai to Rand via Need in Tel'aran'rhiod.

Need led them to three things. First it led them to the White Tower, (where Elayne glimpsed Egwene briefly), then Need shifted Nynaeve and Elayne to a locked storeroom within the White Tower (they thought that was useless). After that, Need led them to the Bowl of the Winds. My questions are regarding the first two things Need brought them to.

On the first thing, was Need bringing them to Egwene?

I believe it was Egwene.

LOIALSON

On the second thing, what was the item Need brought them to in that storeroom?

BRANDON SANDERSON

RAFO.

LOIALSON

Was that something besides the Horn of Valere?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It could be.

LOIALSON

[I felt that this question was grasping at straws here a bit from the impression I got from him, i.e. it's not that important regarding what the item is, but that it will come into play. And it's not the Horn of Valere in this case. I could be wrong, that's just the vibe I got.]

My name is Drew McCaffrey; I'm from Fort Collins, Colorado. I've been an absolutely huge fan of the series for eleven years now, and I just recently graduated as a creative writing major, and I'm a writer because of the Wheel of Time. [applause, cheers]

My question is in regards to a debate that I've had with my cousin and a couple of my friends for a while now. Is it possible for a channeler to be tied to the Horn of Valere?

(Brandon passes mic to Maria, laughter) Um, I think I'm gonna have to say, that's a really good question. [laughter] I honestly can't say why not.

Drew McCaffrey

(to his friends) HA! [laughter, applause]

Maria Simons

But! But I would really love to do some research before giving an absolute definitive answer [laughter] and I can't do that right now.

Drew McCaffrey

Would Lews Therin's soul be tied to the Horn?

Brandon Sanderson

Lews Therin! He was.

Maria Simons

Well yeah. [laughter]

Brandon Sanderson

He was recognized.

Maria Simons

That's right. Absolutely.

Brandon Sanderson

He was recognized, but was he tied to the Horn? Do we have confirmation of that happening? [laughter] Or they just know him? See, he's trying to trick us into saying things.

Harriet McDougal

Maria's saying she'll have to look it up and post it.

Drew McCaffrey

Ooh. Agreed. Well, thank you very much, all of you, for being here tonight and...yeah. [laughter, applause]

I don't know that one either. Because I answered that for somebody; I think it was one of Luckers' questions way back...it was a different version of the question, you know, was the banner really required?

Terez

So why is the Horn of Valere linked to Illian?

Maria Simons

That's another good question that I don't have the answer to.

Oh yeah, so you’d make sure.

Matt Hatch

We know there are spirit-like entities tied to the call of a musical instrument. And we also know the mechanism Robert Jordan created—a super AI-like system, if you will, to guide the outcome of the many variations of all worlds. Finally, we know this super AI can upgrade the status of spirit-like entities as it needs. Therefore, has the super AI tied any female spirit-like entities of individuals who died during the fifty years prior to the final military engagement of the final book to the call of this said musical instrument? [Much clapping.]

Jen Halbman

Arbitrary decision . . . you win!

Leigh Butler

Matt, you have to send that to me . . . [?]

Brandon Sanderson

So, as a subset of paragraph 3, subsection B on the R. A. F. O. Rules of Engagement, this is definitely a Class A Read and Find Out.

Jason Denzel

Does he get a card?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, I’ve got a . . . he’s got so many cards. Yeah, I cannot answer that.

[Question about what Matt asked]

Brandon Sanderson

As I interpreted it, he asked if any women have been tied to the Horn of Valere in the last fifty years. Any women who were not previously tied to it. And so, I can speak of only one person that has been tied to the Horn of Valere in the last fifty years. Male, yes.

Question

Who is that?

Brandon Sanderson

That was Jain Farstrider.

Question

You’re not allowed to talk about it?

Brandon Sanderson

I can’t talk about it. You can interpret that as . . . Now I did preface this all by saying, “Here are the things that I won’t talk about.” So, you can kind of assume that if I can’t talk about it it’s because I don’t know, or I’m holding it back because it might be in the encyclopedia, or things like this.

TIMING
(Being a study of how long it will take information to travel various distances, and how long it will take people to travel various distances on horseback, in a cart or carriage, or afoot.)

ROUTES OF NEWS FROM TOMAN HEAD AND ALMOTH PLAIN.
[The route the news travels affects not only how fast it goes, but also how it is slanted.]

(1) From TARABON to AMADICIA. From AMADICIA to GHEALDAN and ALTARA. From ALTARA to ILLIAN and MURANDY. From MURANDY to ANDOR. From ANDOR to CAIRHIEN, also downriver to TEAR and MAYENE, upriver to TAR VALON, and thence fanning onward to SHIENAR, ARAFEL, and KANDOR.

(2) From ARAD DOMAN to SALDAEA, thence in turn to KANDOR, ARAFEL, and SHIENAR. From KANDOR, ARAFEL and SHIENAR each down to TAR VALON, thence to CAIRHIEN, to ANDOR, and on downriver to TEAR and MAYENE.

(3) By ship from TARABON to ALTARA, ILLIAN, TEAR and MAYENE. (Remember, ships calling at Illian seldom call at Tear or Mayene, and vice versa.)

(4) By ship from ARAD DOMAN to ALTARA, ILLIAN, TEAR and MAYENE. (Remember note under (3).)

By these reckonings, Andor and Cairhien would probably be the last places to hear. The White Tower might well receive news by pigeon and/or courier well ahead of many others, but how much of this would be shared with the general population is uncertain. The Amyrlin Seat, if she did not hear by the above means first of all, would certainly hear by the party with Mat, Egwene, Elayne, Nynaeve and Verin. This party would have traveled north of the Mountains of Mist, eventually crossing the Black Hills, finally reaching Tar Valon some two to three months after leaving Toman Head at the earliest. Baring pigeons, this would be one of the fastest ways to reach Tar Valon with the news.

Pushing hard, as he certainly would do, Byar would reach Amador in twenty to thirty days at a minimum. So Pedron Niall knows at least a version of what happened at least a month and possibly two before the Amyrlin Seat does.

By and large, it would take months for the news to travel. Under normal means, it might take as much as six or eight months to reach Andor and Cairhien.

News of great importance—the death of a king, a civil war—travels somewhat more quickly. [For example, Moiraine, on Toman Head, was able to tell Rand of the death of King Galldrian in Cairhien perhaps four months after it happened.]

NOTE: The Great Hunt of the Horn was sent out from Illian about "July."

Events on Toman Head happened approximately in "October" or "November."

The Hunters do not know that the Horn of Valere has already been found. Those who hear of it think it is merely a wild tale.
It is possible, given the time, that a Hunter may have made it to Toman Head, or even Falme, in time to see or hear of the Seanchan, or even the events at Falme.