Theoryland of the Wheel of Time

BRANDON SANDERSON

Jeremiah

Ted Herman

Seriously, though, any bets on whether the Tinkers will ever find the Song? I bet it's the harvest song from Rand's Aiel memories.

STEVEN COOPER

I asked RJ about this when he was in Melbourne last week, and (amazingly) got a straight answer.

The Song the Tinkers are seeking is the song Rand heard in Rhuidean—or, to be exact, the memories of that song and others like it have become merged, over the years, into the concept of one mystical Song.

STEVEN COOPER

As to whether the Tinkers will find "the Song", I suspect they will—at least, they will be brought to understand their true history just as the Aiel were. RJ seems to intend showing an upheaval affecting every nation and society in Randland during the course of the series. I doubt the Tinkers will survive unchanged into the next Age. Unless they all get wiped out, I think "the Song" will be found at some point.

Okay. Well…I guess we'll just go into the pronunciations.

SPENCER POWELL

Well, our next little bit needs a little bit of a lead-in for our listeners who don't have access to our huge list of questions like we do. As part of our interview questions, we have a list of words, and we asked, "How do you pronounce each of these words?" And there are about 43 of them. There are probably some on here that don't need to be on here, and I know that there aren't some on here that should be, but these are the 43 that we came up with.

VIRGINIA

Yeah, Spencer got mad at me because I went and annotated the list, like…I gotta be exact, and he's like "No…"

SPENCER POWELL

I didn't get mad at you! I just took 'em off; I'm like, "Oh yeah, you're right; take that one off." Anyway. And so Maria, Alan…would you please go through the list and tell us how to pronounce these names and places?

Okay, here we go. And I may, you know, be wrong on some. But others, I'm pretty sure of.

VIRGINIA

And feel free to add some in if something occurs to you as you're going.

MARIA SIMONS

O-kay. We have add-uh-LAY-us. (Adeleas) el-FINN. (Aelfinn) eyes-DEYE-shar. (Aesdaishar) (RJ used EYE to rhyme with the word 'eye') ahm-uh-DEE-see-uh. (Amadicia) [glossary: ah-mah-DEE-see-ah] (ah=ahhh sound, uh=schwa) ERR-id doe-MAHN. (Arad Doman) [glossary: AH-rad do-MAHN] arr-uh-FELL. (Arafel) [glossary: AH-rah-fehl] brr-GEE-tuh. (Birgitte) (hard G) [glossary: ber-GEET-teh] Brenn. (Bryne) [glossary: BRIHN, GAH-rehth] KEYE-ree-enn. (Cairhien) [glossary: KEYE-ree-EHN] CHA fah-EEL. (Cha Faile) (mid ch) drag-car. (Draghkar) [glossary: DRAGH-kahr] EEL-finn. (Eelfinn) guh-LAHD. (Galad) [glossary: gah-LAHD] GAH-win. (Gawyn) [glossary: GAH-wihn] GALE-donn. (Ghealdan) [glossary: GHEL-dahn] I'm not sure if it's huh-REEN or huh-REEN-uh. (Harine) din toe-GAHR-uh Two Winds. ILL-ee-in. (Illian) [glossary: IHL-lee-ahn] ill-ee-AY-nuh. (? - AY is long A) CAN-door. (Kandor) (door like the word) lee-AH-nuh. (Leane) [glossary: lee-AHN-eh shah-REEF] mall-KEER. (Malkier) [glossary: mahl-KEER] my-EEN. (Mayene) [glossary: may-EHN] myur-an-DEE. (Murandy) [glossary: MEW-ran-dee] MEER-drahl. (Myrddraal) [glossary: MUHRD-draal] NEIGH-bliss. Sorry. NAY-bliss. [laughter] (Nae'blis) NEFF. (Naeff?) nee-AHM Passes (Niamh Passes) nigh-NEEV. (Nynaeve) [glossary: NIGH-neev al-MEER-ah] Plains of mah-REE-doh. (Plains of Maredo) ree-AH-nuh. (Reanne) seye-DAR. (saidar). [glossary: sah-ih-DAHR] seye-DEEN. (saidin) [glossary: sah-ih-DEEN] sall-DAY-uh. (Saldaea) [glossary: sahl-DAY-ee-ya] see-AEN. (Seaine?) Alan…

ALAN ROMANCZUK

SHE-nar.

MARIA SIMONS

SHE-nar. (Shienar) [glossary: shy-NAHR] Swan. (Siuan) [glossary: SWAHN SAHN-chay] sor-uh-LEE-uh. (Sorilea) [glossary: soh-rih-LEE-ah] terra-BONN. (Tarabon) [glossary: TAH-rah-BON] TAR-win's Gap. (Tarwin's Gap) tell-uh-RON-ree-odd. (Tel'aran'rhiod) [glossary: tel-AYE-rahn-rhee-ODD] Tower of genn-JEYE. (Ghenjei) (hard G) truh-MALL-king. (Tremalking) [glossary: treh-MAL-king] too-AH-thuh-AHN. (Tuatha'an) [glossary: too-AH-thah-AHN]

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Do you want to go over the saidar/saidin thing we talked about?

MARIA SIMONS

In the glossaries of the books, Jim has it sah-ih-DEEN and sah-ih-DAHR, but I swear, I don't think he pronounced it that way; I mean you kind of give a little hint of the i but not much: sah-ee-DEEN, sah-ee-DAHR.

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Yeah, he always seemed to be saying seye-DEEN and seye-DAHR.

SPENCER POWELL

I'm surprised at how many of those I thought I knew, but I didn't.

JENNIFER LIANG

Yeah. That's like, "Waait a second, that's not…but oh, I guess it is."

MARK

How do you pronounce the Traveling people again?

MARIA SIMONS

too-AH-thah-AHN.

VIRGINIA

There's something else with the double A there…

MARIA SIMONS

ah-tha-AHN mee-AIR. (Atha'an Miere)

VIRGINIA

Okay, great. Any others you can think of that are commonly mangled, that would have driven Jim crazy?

MARIA SIMONS

I think I've mentioned tah-EEM before, and egg-ee-AH-nin…

VIRGINIA

dee-MAN-dred? dee-MAHN-dred? DEE-man-dred?

MARIA SIMONS

Ehh...dee-MAHN-dred, I think…but I wouldn't swear dee-MAHN-dred. [glossary: DEE-man-drehd]

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Pretty straightforward.

VIRGINIA

How about all of the Forsaken? A lot of them often get mangled, or a few. GRIN-doll?

MARIA SIMONS

Grindle, is how I say it. [glossary: GREHN-dahl] And it's interesting, just looking at a thing, and I pronounce CADD-in-soar (cadin'sor) wrong. [glossary: KAH-dihn-sohr]

JENNIFER LIANG

Oh really?

MARIA SIMONS

Yeah, because it's supposed to be cah-DIN-soar. [It's not, according to the glossary.]

JENNIFER LIANG

Okay, because I say it the way you say it.

VIRGINIA

Yeah, I think… [inaudible] so that makes sense.

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Oh! ish-AH-may-el, and SAM-may-el. [glossary: ih-SHAH-may-EHL, SAHM-may-EHL] [When RJ said it, the 'may' part was more like the German 'Mai'.]

JENNIFER LIANG

Yes. Those are really common mistakes; I hear that a lot.

VIRGINIA

Ben [?] was right; we had that famous tagline from the original podcast, and we had this thing…I think, "Sammael was pretty buff!" [laughter] We used that a lot, and it sort of went away when he did, I guess.

SPENCER POWELL

Another one that I have lots of problems with—and I can't believe I didn't get it on the list—but is the GOLL-um (gholam), or the…I can't even pronounce it right now.

MARK

GO-lem?

SPENCER POWELL

Yeah, the GO-lem, that's chasing Mat.

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Yeah.

MARIA SIMONS

Gollum.

SPENCER POWELL

Gollum?

VIRGINIA

Oh, it's Gollum! [crosstalk]

MARIA SIMONS

I am not absolutely sure, but that's how I say it, so…

VIRGINIA

What about some of the other Seanchan beasts that made me think of, the grolm, then there were two of the others that…

MARIA SIMONS

ROCK-in (raken), and TOE-rock-in. (to'raken)

VIRGINIA

Yeah, and then there was another one, the um…

MARIA SIMONS

Torm…the book is right in front of me…

VIRGINIA

Oh, maybe it was the name of that…oh, Suroth's pet!

MARK

S'redit?

MARIA SIMONS

Oh yes, that thing. I can't remember… [crosstalk]

VIRGINIA

Mandra…Mandragal?…Almandragal.

ALAN ROMANCZUK

The LOW-par (lopar)?

VIRGINIA

Yeah, the lopar. Almandaragal was his name, or something like that?

MARIA SIMONS

Something like that. I would have to look it up.

ALAN ROMANCZUK

It was a LOW-par (lopar), wasn't it?

VIRGINIA

Yeah, lopar. I think there was another one that I couldn't…maybe I'm just hallucinating. [laughs]

MARIA SIMONS

Let's see…

VIRGINIA

I'm sure there's a zillion others I'll think of after you're off the air here with us…

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Oh, s'RED-dit (s'redit) is another one. Remember the elephant-like creature?

MARIA SIMONS

Corlm, C-O-R-L-M (I like that word). Torm…that's all I can find.

VIRGINIA

What about Tuon's new name as Empress?

MARIA SIMONS

for-too-OH-nah?

VIRGINIA

Fortuona, okay. I'm not sure how else you could pronounce that, but I've been wrong before, so...

MARIA SIMONS

That, I'm assuming is right; I'm pretty sure I heard Jim pronounce it that way, because that was his choice of name.

VIRGINIA

There must be something else; there seems like a million things, and that I didn't add enough to the list.

MARIA SIMONS

OH-geer…

ALAN ROMANCZUK

moe-TIE? (???)

VIRGINIA

Oh! What about—speaking of historical figures—LAH-tra…poe-SAI? Or poe-SAY? deh-KYU-meh? (Latra Posae Decume)

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Oh yeah, LA-tra (LA rhymes with laugh)…

VIRGINIA

I got the Latra, but I'm not sure about the second and third names.

MARIA SIMONS

Boy.

VIRGINIA

It's P-O-S-A-E, and then D-E-C-U-M-E.

MARIA SIMONS

po-SAY-uh deh-COO-may.

VIRGINIA

deh-COO-may, okay. [crosstalk]

MARIA SIMONS

That's totally off the top of my head. I see it (?) and think it, anyway. po-SAY-uh deh-COO-may, yeah.

Robert Jordan's notes on this are very clear: the Tinkers will never find their song. They've lost it for too long, that even if someone stood in front of them singing The Song, they would just nod their head, say 'that's a nice song' and go on their way.

Bravehamster

He also confirmed that Rand was singing The Song in Tuon's garden.

By specific instruction from RJ, the Tinkers have not found their song as of the end of A Memory of Light.

Brandon Sanderson

The song of growing is not their "Song." The Song is a much more deep and philosophical concept, perhaps unattainable.

TJ

Do you imagine that Rand teaches "the song" to the Tu'athan after the events of A Memory of Light?

Brandon Sanderson

Rand does not know The Song. Anything he'd try to teach them, they would not accept as The Song.

Aaron Oster

Wait, are you saying Rand's song that Mat recognized wasn't the Tinkers' song?

Brandon Sanderson

The Tinker "Song" is an ideal that goes far beyond any song that has actually ever existed.

Multiple people asked about the Tinker Song and the Way of the Leaf.

Brandon said it's more than a song, it's a way of life. The song itself would mean peace and harmony for all people. Robert Jordan said it can't be found, it's a way of life (to quote Brandon, quoting RJ, "The Tinkers never do find their damn Song.") Put another way, as Brandon wrote on the cover of one Memory Keeper's book: "journey over destination".

Do the Tinkers ever find the Song?

Directly in Robert Jordan's notes, is this quote, verbatim: "The Tinkers never find their damn song!"

What happened to the Tinkers? Why didn't you give them the Song?

I didn't because in his notes Robert Jordan said, and I quote, "The Tinkers never do find their damn song." He wrote it exactly like that. And it's because the song has become something more than just a song. It is a way of life. It means peace, kind of Nirvana. And it's actually basically impossible to find the song, because it means the whole world is at peace. That’s what it means to them now. And because it's become an ideal rather than a single event, it's not something you could actually even go to them with the thing that was originally the Song and sing, and have them acknowledge that it is the Song.

I don't know that one.

Terez

It's not in the notes?

Maria Simons

Not that I have found. Searching the notes is....it's an imperfect science. Like if it's a rare character, it's real easy, because I open my desktop search, and I put in that name and not much comes up, but you put in "Tinkers"...you know, there are hundreds of files where the Tinkers are mentioned. If I had one of them's name? You know. I'm hoping to find out; I'm still finding new little bits and pieces here and there, so...

This image is not about the song, unfortunately. I believe it is, as has been stated, about his family.

The notes do say explicitly that the Tinkers do not find their song.

skylatron (1 October 2014)

That fact makes me pretty sad. I was holding out hope that they'd found it, or at least part of it.

Brandon Sanderson (1 October 2014)

Here's what RJ said—though I can't remember if this is in interviews or if I got this via Harriet.

The song is not something that can be found. Over the years, the "Song" has come to mean something to the Tinkers—it means peace, harmony, everyone getting along. Perhaps even a little touch of Nirvana.

Even if they heard the song, as it originally was, they would not accept it as "The Song." Rand actually knows the song—and everyone who has been through the pillars hears it, I believe. But this is not "The Song."

As long as there is strife in the world, The Song has not been found.